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What's with the bad rap about Grado cartridges? |
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Lucabeer 
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Joined: 24 Jan 2009 Location: Torino, Italy Status: Offline Points: 711 |
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 Topic: What's with the bad rap about Grado cartridges?Posted: 03 May 2019 at 5:42pm |
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I had always avoided trying a Grado cartridge, because of many bad things heard on forums, etc: - they hum because they are unshielded - they are lousy trackers - they use an obsolete design, with simple bonded elliptical styluses, even in middle of the range models - they exhibit the infamous "Grado dance" because the suspension is undamped - they have a mellow warm sound which goes well with some genres, but at the expense of detail and speed Never been one to take anything for granted, I had a friend lend me his Prestige Gold 2 for a while... So, following my previous report (https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/2m-black-at440mla-mp500-setting-and-comparison_topic4661.html), I decided to put it under the same scrutiny on my Technics 1210 Mk2 + Reflex M + Solo Ultra Linear DE... Hoping as usual to be of use to other forum members! Grado Prestige Gold 2 --------------------------- VTF: 1.6 g Antiskate: 1.7 VTA: 1 (but take into account that I use a thinner mat than the stock one: those with the 6mm mat will probably want to dial 3) Surprise, surprise... - it hums a little bit, yes, when the arm is very near the runout groove. But I can hear it faintly only when there is no music playing, and with the Solo at 4 o'clock position with my rather sensitive (98 db/mW) headphones. I wonder why Grado doesn't shield their cartridges, but to me the hum is so low that it won't be a deal breaker AT ALL - it is a very nice tracker, at least comparable if not even BETTER than the Ortofon 2M Black/Bronze: I get the "bee" (in both channels) only in the most extreme torture track (300Hz at +18dB), and in all other tests it's flawless - the resonance tests show some evident oscillation in the horizontal test at around 9 Hz (with even a hint of incoming mistracking), and some oscillation at around 11 Hz vertically. While the oscillation is stronger than with my other cartridges, it remains in a "safe" frequency range so it's not a reason to worry (and with a lighter arm it could even be less a reason to) - sound is rich, chewy, but not fat or bloated. High frequency detail is there, simply not as glaring or "in your face" as for the example with the Ortofons. To me the sound is somehow reminiscent of the one I get from the Nagaoka MP-500, maybe slightly thicker but not in an unpleasant way at all I must say that I am actually pleasantly surprised by this cartridge which doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and even more pleased to see that my fears were unfounded. Planning to listen to it a few more days before returning it to its legitimate owner: if I didn't already have three cartridges, I might consider adding one to my collection. |
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patientot
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Joined: 28 Nov 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1531 |
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Posted: 03 May 2019 at 5:53pm |
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I think the carts have certain quirks which manifest themselves differently on different turntables and with different systems and different records. So you get a wide range of opinions on them.
I've never heard the current Gold model, but I have heard some of the lower end models from awhile back and wasn't a fan of them. It's possible I didn't hear them under ideal conditions, but objective tests have confirmed what I thought about them. I think they exist for people that are seeking a particular sound and are willing to deal with or manage the quirks of their design. RE: the styli, I think it is too bad that they only use bonded ellipticals on the Prestige styli now. Years ago they did offer nicer nude tips on those models. Now, even the XTZ et. al. is a bonded stylus. I got that info straight from the horse's mouth btw. To me personally, it represents a poor value relative to what else is on the market. And while $260 isn't an enormous sum, I can buy other cart brands/models I like more for the same or even less money, so I don't feel compelled to bother. The fact that my main deck has a tonearm that is a bit too heavy for a good compliance match just puts the nail in the coffin.
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Lucabeer
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Joined: 24 Jan 2009 Location: Torino, Italy Status: Offline Points: 711 |
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Posted: 03 May 2019 at 5:58pm |
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260 dollars? It's cheaper here in Italy: 189 EUR. I certainly understand that they have quirks, and that's understandable... but again, either the Technics is a crazy turntable that will digest any cartridge, or some of them might be exaggerated. About the styli, I agree: it seems somehow sloppy (and anti-commercial) not to offer some more refined alternatives which the customers would certainly pay big bucks for. But again, the proof is in the pudding... and so far, I like what I hear from this humble bonded elliptical (and tracking isn't bad either, and that's coming from me who only use Microlines and Shibatas...). My friend who loaned me his to try swears on Grado and wouldn't use anything else on his Rega because he likes the luscious sound (he actually has one of the better wood body Grados, so that's why he gave my his "backup" Gold to try).
Edited by Lucabeer - 03 May 2019 at 6:00pm |
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patientot
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Posted: 03 May 2019 at 6:13pm |
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Yeah, prices are different everywhere. Here in the U.S. we pay higher prices on some things and less on others. I know that many people will buy carts from the UK, EU, or Japan to get better pricing. I've done it before also.
RE: the Technics arm, I think it is very versatile, moreso than a lot of arms out there. I've also heard that Grados perform even better with the arm when you add the KAB silicone fluid damper. RE: the luscious sound, I suppose that kind of warmth is what people love about Grado. I would probably enjoy it on some records but find it sluggish and rolled off on others after awhile. The truth is there is no perfect cartridge and no perfectly flat cartridge, but over time I've gravitated toward more neutral sounding cartridges than less neutral sounding ones. The cart I'm using now is probably the most neutral I've had, though I wouldn't call it perfect by any means. There are other carts that outclass it in stereo separation and detail, for example. My next step with cartridges will likely be a custom retip job on my Stanton.
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Lucabeer
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Joined: 24 Jan 2009 Location: Torino, Italy Status: Offline Points: 711 |
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Posted: 03 May 2019 at 10:59pm |
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I have tried a few album sides with the Grado... It's true that it really shines with jazz! Not only jazz with vocals (with some Sinatra it's great), but also pure instrumental (listening to some Gil Evans "Out of the cool", you can feel great rhythm, drive and weighty presence from the bass: I had never felt such a foot-tapping quality in this album like with the Grado). Very realistic and intimate soundstage. With rock... it depends. With some Beatles ("Magical mystery tour"), it was again very lively and authoritative, with nice slam in the lower registers. With some recent R.E.M., not quite: "Collapse into now" is congested, over-layered and lo-fi, and the Grado makes it seem even busier and unfocused. With sparse and punchy electronica (Massive Attack, '90s Bowie...), it's OK, but the thumping bass is not as tight as with other more technically proficient cartridges. Powerful and thick, but not completely controlled. My impression so far is that this Grado does best with music that is not too intricate/produced/congested. A good cartridge with a timbrically interesting signature for natural instruments and for the voice. My impression is that somehow this cartridge has some resonance that is not completely controlled, but which adds decay and richness in a pleasant way. Trombones and picked bass violin are absolutely stellar. Not neutral, but euphonic. Really, it's not a myth that it shines with jazz: it's true. Tomorrow I want to try some Nick Cave. Edited by Lucabeer - 03 May 2019 at 11:24pm |
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patientot
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Posted: 03 May 2019 at 11:27pm |
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Interesting results. I often hear that a Grado on a sympathetic tonearm does very well with things like jazz, classical piano, acoustic folk music, etc.
Those later R.E.M. albums are probably quite compressed I'm guessing. I don't have that one, but I'd guess it could be a challenge for many carts.
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Lucabeer
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Posted: 04 May 2019 at 8:34am |
In truth, the last two R.E.M. albums sound awful on CD and slightly more tolerable on vinyl (regardless of the cartridge).
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