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Suggestion Box 2013
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musicdude View Drop Down
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Points: 115 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote musicdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 9:01am
Not an other poll .... I'll say no ... LOL
Andy

ProJect Xtension 10 with Clearaudio Charisma V2, GA2 SE, Majestic DAC, CuSat50, Yamaha CD-S1000, Yamaha M-80, Revel F-52.
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morris_minor View Drop Down
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Points: 6197 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morris_minor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 9:31am
Originally posted by Gary Gary wrote:

Originally posted by Graham Slee Graham Slee wrote:

So basically you want a micro-computer?
That's the problem, the streamer is just a dedicated computer. You can pick up a cheap second hand Squeezbox 3 and use a good DAC and it will sound as good as a £1000 one box streamer/DAC like the Musical Fidelity Click or even the Naim UnityQute and equivalent Linn with a good secondhand amp. As far as I know the magic happens in the DAC and amplification wich you already have or soon will have mastered.
I totally agree. 

But a problem is that folk may not wish to go down the 2nd hand SB route - and Squeeze networks aren't always the easiest to get going. I've had one for about 8 years, and mine now has six players and 4 iDevice-based players on it - and occasionally it throws it hissy-fit. 

The new breed of uPnP streamers are hopefully simpler to get going, and the decision that Graham & co need to make is: do they follow the herd and join the rest in offering a streamer (but with markedly superior analogue stages etc), or sidestep this and provide DACs and other components for folk to add on to their existing streamers as upgrades? Following the herd is not a GSP trait, but market trends need to be watched carefully IMO.
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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Gary View Drop Down
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Points: 89 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 10:00am
The only advantage of modern streamers over older Squeezebox's except the Touch is they don't need a computer or NAS running Squeeze Serve (Don't know if its still called that). In my opinion the ultimate streamer was and possibly still is a Squeezebox Transporter and a Squeezebox Controller, the big HiFi companies Naim, Linn and Cyrus to a large extent have only just caught up with it. If Graham can produce a streamer like the Transporter then I'd buy it.
The other problem with streamers is the IT support that would be needed. You just have to look at the forums for Squeeze Box and Sonos to see the problems some people have, usually caused by their own IT ignorance.
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Points: 6197 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morris_minor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 10:14am
Squeezeserver is now Logitech Media Server . . .

I use a Transporter in my living room system and it is a quality piece of kit. Recently it's been plugged into an Audiolab 8200AP - via both analogue and digital, and I still prefer the much older on-board DAC than the 8200APs shiny new one.

And yes, IT ignorance is a major factor in folk not getting on with the SB players. If I hadn't worked in IT I'm not sure I'd have stuck with it in the early Slim Devices days.

It's wishful thinking of course, but I wonder how the system would have developed if Logitech hadn't bought Slim Devices out? A much lower key product range, but I suspect it would still be in production and being developed . . . 
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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ICL1P View Drop Down
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Points: 2397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ICL1P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2013 at 5:01pm
I've been away a few days and only just caught up with this. Should I understand from the last few posts that, excluding the DACs, whether built in or separate, there are no sonic differences whatsoever between streamers made by, L, N, MF, D, M etc, etc?

If that is the case, what, if anything, do they bring to the party that my iTunes and Airport Express/Apple TV three room system doesn't?
Ifor
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Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.
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Gary View Drop Down
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Points: 89 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2013 at 6:31pm
I was relying on experiences I had just over a year ago when I decided I wanted to upgrade from a Sonos ZP90 through a MF X-DACv3 and MF X-150 amp. I listened to a MF M1 Clic with my amp, a Naim UnityQute and Linn Sneaky (last two through their built in amps). None of them could match my original setup for sound quality or ease of use. Now I'm using CuSat50 and Spatia the gap will be even greater. I've no idea what the streamers over £1500 sound like, and I've not heard the Cyrus streamers or anything made by Apple. I ended up replacing the DAC for a Rega.



 



Edited by Gary - 18 Jan 2013 at 6:37pm
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ICL1P View Drop Down
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Points: 2397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ICL1P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2013 at 7:55pm
In essence my Apple based system delivers ALAC files digitally to an Arcam rDAC which feeds my amp. Control is very simple either from iTunes on the iMac or via the Remote app on iPad and iPhone. So music files in iTunes are "pushed" to the DAC, whereas with a streamer they would "pulled" from the iMac. I suppose the question really is whether the software in a streamer would do a better job that iTunes. Maybe there's a lot more to it Han this. I haven't a clue and maybe the Airport Expresses and Apple TV have limitations I don't understand.
Ifor
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Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.
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