New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Proprius As Headphone Amp
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Welcome to the Graham Slee Audio Products Owners Forum

 

Open to all owners plus those contemplating the purchase of a Graham Slee HiFi System Components audio product and wishing to use this forum's loaner program: join here (Rules on posting can be found here)

This website along with trade marks Graham Slee and HiFi System Components are owned by Cadman Enterprises Ltd


Proprius As Headphone Amp

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Ash View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Location: Dorset
Status: Offline
Points: 4334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2015 at 8:09pm
I disagree that the Proprius are inferior to the Solo ULDE; I consider them equal for some loads. Depends what they are driving and where the dials are set. 

Why do you think I was happy enough to sell the Solo ULDE originally and just keep the monoblocks for my headphones? Very close, they are. I only bought another Solo UL some time later because I was trying to cost-cut my system and see if I could get everything I wanted out of the headamp. But I had to put both the dials right up when using the Maj-Solo into K1000, to the point where noise/distortion was being reached and the dynamic range reached compression, as though I'd reached a limit of useful gain or ran out of current allowance.

I want ONE "no holding back" DAC and one "no holding back" amplification device, preferably all in one product. That is my objective. But I can only achieve this if Graham makes it, as I will not be going to another manufacturer for my product and do not have Graham's skills and knowledge/experience to make it for myself. An integrated amplifier is of great interest to me and I would like to be involved in the development of this product as much as possible. 

I was thinking along what Graham has suggested; headphones and speakers being driven from one, adaptive output. A Majestic-Proprius type of design in one aluminium case, alleviating the need for interconnect cables between DAC and amp. A mega-Bitzie, you could say, in terms of bare-bones excellence. I will be watching with ever-growing interest.


Originally posted by Graham Slee Graham Slee wrote:

]

But, as I keep trying to educate this world, electronics isn't perfect - most people mistakenly think it is - but it is man-made from the very stuff we walk upon (rocks and clay). There are trade-offs, and in this example it's hiss.

As I've been saying since the very start, low-noise = boredom. Musical fun comes from timing, and timing requires fast electronics, and fast electronics has large slew-rates, and anything having a large slew-rate isn't low noise (as all the data sheets say).


I agree; electronics isn't perfect, which is why I am happy to accept the imperfections of my monoblocks. Phase/timing is what seems to make the music great for me. Hiss can still be made insignificant without sacrificing timing. I want to see you keep things simple yet excellent, using your current Maj-Pro achievement as a guide. I have no attachment to your products; all I care about is your circuit designs and how they can be best implemented to make them as small, compact and formidable sounding as possible.


Edited by Ash - 15 Jul 2015 at 8:40pm
Back to Top
miT View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 890
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2015 at 10:15pm
Who said the Proprius is inferior? As Ash said they are equal but one has more power behind it, useful for inefficient headphones (or speakers).

I too am looking forward to the integrated amp as it will suit my needs perfectly.
Back to Top
Graham Slee View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Retired

Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Location: South Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 16298
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by Ash Ash wrote:

Graham, try setting the volume pot of the Proprius pair at different positions and adjusting the Majestic pot accordingly.
...

For the Mark Audio speakers in parallel, I set each Proprius to 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock or somewhere inbetween. For a fully opened out K1000, I set the Proprius pots to somewhere before the 3 o'clock position so that I can't hear any hiss. I tend to just set both halfway, at 12 o'clock so that hiss is so low level that I cannot hear it.

For HD540II from Proprius, I think I set the pots at 9-12 o'clock so I couldn't hear hiss. For the more sensitive HD800, I set them at no higher than 9 o'clock.

Using the Majestic and Proprius I found 12 o'clock to be just right for me with the Majestic VC set to 10 o'clock using the HD250II. I could not detect any hiss at all using the HD250II.

This would suggest the use of a -20dB "dim" L-pad (attenuator) on the input of the integrated's power-amp inputs.

If using less sensitive headphones I am sure turning the Majestic volume higher would have given satisfactory results? (based on the Proprius 12 o'clock position)


That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
Back to Top
Ash View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Location: Dorset
Status: Offline
Points: 4334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 8:28pm
For more sensitive loads, I personally turn down the Proprius pots and turn up the Majestic pot, as only the Proprius gain seems to influence the level of audible noise. This is what I have found with my equipment. Your HD250II and my HD540II are more or less the same headphone; their characteristics are almost identical.
 
The more sensitive the drivers or the lower their impedance, I am under the impression that amplification noise is more easily heard. I've only used 300 Ohm Sennheisers and 120 Ohm K1000 with them though. I'd imagine that even at lowest pot positions on the Proprius, it would still be unsuitable for devices like IEMs (In-Ear Monitors)
 
I'd guess that less sensitive loads would be driven as well from Proprius as they are from Solo. Some devices may ideally require the extra current that the Proprius can supply.


Edited by Ash - 16 Jul 2015 at 8:37pm
Back to Top
Fatmangolf View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Location: Middlesbrough
Status: Offline
Points: 8960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2015 at 10:02am
Echoing Ash's comments I have effectively set the volume controls on the Proprius amps just over half way. It lowers the subtle hiss to inaudible in my listening environment and also means I can use more of the range of Majestic's volume control.
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
Back to Top
Bags View Drop Down
Regular
Regular


Joined: 14 Apr 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 80
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bags Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2021 at 11:28pm
What cables are you using between the Proprius and your headphones?

I'd like to try something similar into my HD600s.

Back to Top
Ash View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Location: Dorset
Status: Offline
Points: 4334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2021 at 8:16am
I cut open a short fairly inexpensive oxygen-free copper 3.5mm male to 6.35mm female adapter cable at the jack end to expose the bare wires. I essentially connected the negative terminals of the Proprius together as they converge at the female end of the cable, then just worked out which channel was which by trial and error with the positive leads. The "common ground" did not give me any trouble so I think it is okay. Remember to set all dials low before you begin then carefully raise the volume. HD600 is a nominal 300 Ohm load with similar sensitivity to the Senns that I tried. I would set the Proprius dial to 9-10 o'clock and fine adjust with the Majestic or pre-amp of choice.

Edited by Ash - 06 Jul 2021 at 8:19am
We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.