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headphone equalize debate -

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ellisdj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ellisdj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2011 at 11:01am

I am in this position and I bet most are in the same.

I buy 90% of things online - as I feel I get the best deals and can shop about.
There is nowhere near me to go and demo anything of decent quality.
I went to my local Seven Oaks and had a listen to the £3k+ Arcam AVR600 - now bearing in mind they are trying to get you to spend £3k on the amp, probs £3k on the B&W speaker system - maybe £2k on the Panny Plasma its on in their demo room + More on cables - I should walk out of there and want it all because it is so good!
For starters is sounded poor - setup badly poor - there was no CD player to listen to the AVR on bearing in mind the Stereo playback is supposedly the reason you buy the expensive Arcam.  The sub was all boom - no finesse and I walked away disappointed in it all and bought a £2k Pioneer AVR LX-83 that had blown me away on first listen in my cousins house as it was setup properly!!
Now the Arcam is arguably better but in the demo it did not even come close! 

My point being it’s not easy to listen to different types of headphones to see what I like best without buying them all - which is not possible.  Its even more impossible to do with speakers as they cost 10x what headphones cost.

With every upgrade we are chasing better sound, how often do you actually sit and listen and don’t pick apart what you are hearing?  How often can you sit and listen to every CD you own without thinking - I hate that hiss there, That sounds wrong, I hate / wont listen to that CD as I can’t stand the sound of it ?
For example Adele 21 - when I first got this CD I nearly sent it back as I thought it was the worst recorded album I have ever heard, I thought I must have a dud CD.
I spoke to several long time audiophile relatives who wont listen to it despite liking the music – due largely  to how it sounds - very shrill to say the least.
I took the CD round to my cousins to listen to it against his exact CD and to both our amazements mine sounded a little bit better than his - this is the 100% truth.

This highlighted an obvious problem elsewhere - we both have a Pioneer LX-83 AVR and were both running in Pure Direct Mode with a REL sub wired via high level, both off Meridian CD Players( mine 506.24 his 506.16).  I have B&W 805 speakers - so fairly high end. 
We discovered that if we used the amp in stereo mode i.e. with a crossover set to 80htz, using the advanced MCCAC calibration (I have adjusted to get a better / flatter curve rspsonse) - which is basically an 8 point eq with a few other very good tech features the sound such as standing wave correction the sound was drastically improved, as the eq/ tech is counteracting the room effects - all of a sudden CD's that were unlistenable - were very much listenable, and actually sounded ok - like Adelle 21

This took me a while to swallow - I was at first convinced the sound in pure direct was better - being a purist - However I was very very wrong - listening to music from a closer to reference curve is far far better, so much more balanced, clearer and no more cd’s you can’t listen to.

I am not saying all CDs are recorded well as they obviously not - but there is no CD I can’t listen to anymore as it sounds horrible

This was very much the same with the subwoofer – we have introduced a neat little gizmo called an Antimode that equalises your bass to reduce unwanted peaks that the room causes.  This results in much better bass for both music and films.

My overall point of all this is that equalisation on my main system has made a dramatic improvement to the overall sound!  I wouldn’t dream of listening to music now or watching a film with it turned off!  I am also not saying a stereo Krell with no eq wouldn’t sound better for stereo than my Pioneer as I am sure it would – however I know my room would still have its effect on my 805’s.

Therefore why are headphones any different really ?

If I had not had such positive results equalising my main system I would not even dream of eq them – however the results with my main system have been so dramatic – I have heard clearly the improvements that can be made I was more than willing to try.

Now if I bypass the eq Electri Q on foobar things sound very wrong / bad – similar to how they sound when I switch over to pure direct on my AVR .  I can clearly hear the peaks at the frequencies that do when listening to music – this makes voices sstt at times, sound high pitched – it exaggerates symbols and masks the clarity and spaciousness that comes through in the mid range.  None of that is right – that won’t have been how it was recorded.

For example Bob Marley - Legend CD – most people probably own it.

Track 5 Buffalo Solider – when the eq is on and right you can hear two backing singers voices one in each channel  / ear clearly come in each side and sing from behind / the side of you during the chorus – when its off the sound is there but it’s just a muddle with the rest of it.

That’s just one easy example I can think of that easy for you to test.

You need to also consider with eq the headphones – you are only reducing – never adding anything to the sound – i.e. only lowering frequencies!  Therefore you are not adding distortion – you are actually reducing inherent kind of distoretion that’s caused by the headphones being on your ears.

You are certainly not adding bass and not adding treble – IN FACT if your system is setup close to a flat curve you will never need to add or take away anything – you will be able to listen to EVERYTHING and know the way you are hearing it is how it sounds / supposed to sound.



Edited by ellisdj - 21 Oct 2011 at 11:39am
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suede View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2011 at 5:26pm
I've never lamented the lack of an EQ on my UL since I seem to have a slight aversion towards them in the first place. However I have sometimes missed the good old mono switch when listening to old mono records with a stereo pickup.

Edit:
Sorry, didn't read the thread properly. Thought it was about old timey analog equalizers.


Edited by suede - 22 Oct 2011 at 2:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2011 at 8:25pm
If it helps I used Audessey auto-setup on my Denon home cinema amp. 7 channels and a sub is more than I want to do manually! In fact it helped me choose the next amp because it does a very good job IMO. But I use a stereo amp on the front L/R and do all the moving around of left and right speakers for 2.0 before running Audessey.
 


Edited by Fatmangolf - 21 Oct 2011 at 8:27pm
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ellisdj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2011 at 9:05pm
That seems a common solution to overcome typical lacking stereo performance of AV amps - however a problem of that is you then have a different sonic characteristic to your front 2 main speakers - from your other 5.

With home cinema you want it all to match as much as possible i.e. same speakers etc, especially across the front 3, thats your main sound stage.

Its expensive to get the perfect solution - however I can strongly recommed the Pioneer top end AV Amp range - the lX83 is simply stunning - I upgraded from the very highly regarded and very good Yamaha Z7 - the Pioneer LX-83 however is in a different league.
The new LX85 is supposed to be stunning in Pure direct as well now relieving the need for a stereo amp - I still stand by the fact that it will sound better after a calibration and in stereo mode i.e.  crossing over, using the eq, standiung wave correction etc, however for the purist you can have your cake and eat it
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