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High Frequency hearing loss?

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Drewan77 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drewan77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: High Frequency hearing loss?
    Posted: 21 Feb 2014 at 5:42pm
I don’t know whether my latest rambling is of interest to anyone, however I have been curious for a while to test the fact that hearing deteriorates with age, particularly appreciation of high frequencies.  I can honestly say I don't notice it and have seen numerous references to neither human hearing nor CDs extending above 20khz. So as a ‘human’ (last time I looked) and getting on in years, my hearing should be pretty flawed

Curiosity got the better of me a few days ago. With active crossovers, I am able to use 50th order 300dB/octave slopes - my ‘unusual’ system configuration accommodates something like this quite easily with super tweeters

As an experiment, I progressively used higher crossover points and a fairly high listening volume, the other amps controlling mid & bass below the crossover frequency were switched out of circuit. This was not music and obviously quite annoying to listen to, however all I was trying to do was see what I can still hear above set frequencies and if anything at all is audible beyond 20khz or on a CD

Album used for this: Tony Joe White ‘Closer to the truth’ which is very well mastered, contains a lot of hi-hat and the metallic ring of cymbals. I also have it on LP and CD to be able to compare which I did in ‘real time’ with volumes equalised. All the frequencies below are the lowest level permitted by the crossover, upwards to infinity and beyond as they say…

With CD –

18khz+: treble is clearly heard and slightly ‘brittle’ (when switching/comparing to the LP)

20khz+: its still there, reduced in volume

22khz+: Nothing at the listening position, a slight ‘tizz’ on hi-hats audible with my ear close to the tweeter (maybe even a brick wall crossover still bleeds upwards a bit from <20khz?)

25khz+: nothing I can hear

With Vinyl –

18khz+: treble sounds clear and quite ‘shimmering’

20khz+: still clear, slightly less reduction in volume than the CD ie a bit brighter sounding

22khz+: more audible than the CD from the listening chair. Quite a lot still going on but pretty low volume & subtle

25khz+: very slight occasional ‘sssz’ sound - only with my ear very close to the tweeter and only on the high percussion & LP ‘pops/clicks’. To all intents and purposes therefore, nothing much to hear

(by the way, slightly audible hiss from the Reflex M is at a lower level than surface noise so irrelevant once the needle hits the disc)

With vinyl playback, whenever I return to full range listening but switch out frequencies above 20khz, the music becomes slightly flatter and duller. I don’t think it’s imaginary. With everything back in circuit, it all sounds natural and immediate

Conclusion: Maybe my hearing has not deteriorated as it’s meant to be… yet. The higher frequency response on an LP is somehow audible above 20khz even though we are supposed not to hear it, especially at my age and may be contributing to the ‘airier’ and more natural sound that vinyl possesses? The CD high frequencies sound subtly different to vinyl and definitely die off above 20khz (I anticipate the Majestic smoothing the brittleness though…each type of cartridge/DAC will naturally vary so it’s virtually impossible to do a true comparison)

None of this is scientific of course but thanks for reading this far !

I am back listening to music as SWMBO is away for the weekend and have a lot to get through (must remember to brush the cobwebs off the TV by Sunday evening Wink)

Older than I once was, younger than I'll be
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Andrew
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suede View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2014 at 6:33pm
Interesting test and findings Andrew, thanks for sharing it.
I read an article a while back (on BBC.co.uk I think it was) which stated that normal hearing deterioration from ageing generally isn't as pronounced in professional musicians as in people in general. Now if this has anything to do with how we use our sense of hearing on a daily basis, how much focus we put on it, then it should apply equally to audio enthusiasts shouldn't it? After all I believe there is such a thing as fine-tuning your sense of hearing, making it more accute to finer details. Maybe this also brings with it some small protection?
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Johan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ICL1P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2014 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by Drewan77 Drewan77 wrote:

So as a ‘human’ (last time I looked) and getting on in years, ...

Good God man! Whatever are you talking about? You're a whole week younger than me; a mere youngster!
Ifor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2014 at 6:56pm
I managed to find the mentioned article again: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-14882394
Seems it's musicians in general, not just the professional kind.
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Johan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drewan77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2014 at 7:05pm
Well Johan, I am not a musician but the amount of live music I listen to should have done permanent damage by now. Maybe there is something in that BBC article.

As Ifor may be suggesting that I have only a further seven days before deterioration sets in Confused, it's just as well that I have a completely free weekend ahead (& I wish I was a whole week younger than that picture of his !)
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Andrew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2014 at 8:24pm
I'm a bit of a recreational musician myself. Playing the guitar and the harmonica, and also used to play the piano when I had one. So if these findings are indeed true and if they apply to discerning music listeners as well then I can safely set my Solo dial all the way to eleven, safe in the knowledge that my ears are quite indestructible. Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikeh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2022 at 3:14pm
An old thread, I know, but better than starting afresh.

Having received the results of a recent hearing test, I know my range is down about 4db  between 4-6KHz before kicking up again. As the audiologist said, 'a typical cookie bite loss pattern, maybe better than average for age'.i.e old codgers syndrome.

Has anyone tried using tone controls to counteract such hearing degradation? I've seen there has been a lot of discussion about tone/ loudness controls in the thread about Graham's 70's design amp but nothing about adding such controls to a GSM system.  I've only found one 'simple' analogue tone control,.the Schiit Loki or Lokius, otherwise it seems to be complex graphic equaliser or dsp.  I would prefer to 'keep it simple' with minimum addition to the chain between Majestic and Proprius.  I'd be interested in any experience /advice in this area.
Mike

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