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What to upgrade next?

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tmoody View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Apr 2018 at 1:53pm
Hi All,

I'm new here, so let my first say up front that I apologize if I'm posting in the wrong forum area, or asking questions that are somehow out of bounds. I'm from the New York area and though we do our best we've also been known as bulls in china shops. I also apologize for the length of what follows. To paraphrase, sorry for the long post; I didn't have time to write a short one.

With that said, let me also say how pleased I am to have happened upon GS products and this community. Lurking in these forums has already taught me much, but certainly no more than a drop in the bucket compared to most in the community here.

A little background - I'm pushing 50, and have a long history as an audio lover that morphed over the years into a love of home theater. As an unintended consequence, my 2-channel listening shrunk nearly to nil, and vinyl long since to absolute zero.

About a year ago however my wife uncovered my old record collection...mostly rock, classic rock, early rap (talking late 70s - early 80s) as well as some crooners, big band, and a little jazz and classical. I decided to set up a 2-channel rig completely separate from my theater to see if the hobby was one to which I would return. I used to spend hours browsing the racks at the Tower Records (RIP) on E4th in NYC, run home with a new album or two, rip open the shrink wrap, and sit for hours just listening to the music. No reading, chores, or anything else. Just listening. Those were the days.

I started modestly, using a pair of Diva Swan 4.1's I had on hand, a new Marantz 8005, and a U-Turn audio TT with Grado Blue1 cart and in-built phono stage. Lo and Behold, not only have I resumed my old listening habits, but, to my delight, I've also started purchasing vinyl again - mostly 180g releases and re-releases of music I 'skipped' during the CD and now streaming eras. My wife thinks it's weird when I sit in the sweet spot and do nothing but listen to music, but ultimately she's supportive.

Of course, the entire experience left me wanting MORE.

I recently upgraded to a pair of KEF Reference 3's and a Pass Labs INT-60. That leaves my poor little U-Turn and its phono stage as my front end. From a cost standpoint, it's certainly the odd man out. I'm not sure if its quality is 'awful' as I've not been able to hear high end vinyl rigs with my speakers and amp.

Which leads me to my current dilemma. Do I get a new TT? A new cart for the existing one? A new phono stage? For the moment, the KEFs and Pass have left me somewhat out of funds, but I don't want to do "nothing" right now.

I've reached out to Bruce (BAK) to borrow an Accession and a Reflex M, so I'll definitely do as much in-home listening to those as I can. [PHENOMENAL lending program - compliments to Graham on that!]

However, I wanted to pick the brains and tap the experiences of those here. I've had set ups recommended to me at different price points, e.g.:
- Planar 6 + Ania MC + Rega Fono MC for about $3k
- VPI Prime Scout + Ortofon 2M Black for about $3k before a phono stage

Others have insisted that my speakers and amp warrant (and would reveal the benefits of) a VPI Prime, or Rega RP8 or 10 with Gyrodec or Orbe.

I'm not sure I want to spend that much on a TT regardless, though, I'm already in for a bit on the other components.

Given all the above - and sorry again for the length - what do you gents and ladies think I ought to do? My inclination is to stay in the MM realm, but could be talked out of it.

And, will my current TT reveal the differences between the Accession and the Reflex? I'd hate not to hear a difference (now) owed to my current rig, but find down the road that there is or would've been one with a better TT.

Anyway, I'm somewhat all over the place. Sorry for that. I'll leave it there and hope for some thoughts.

Best,
Tony


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morris_minor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morris_minor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2018 at 7:29pm
Hi Tony,

There's nothing wrong with sticking with MMs - and the Accession (as you'll find out) will get the most out of your cartridge and your records. Of the TTs you mention my choice would be the Gyro - having owned one Embarrassed! Those brass weights spinning round look sooo cool! And it sounds great too. 

I suggest upgrading one component at a time so you can tell what each brings to the party.

I dare say others here will chip in with their ideas and suggestions. Let us know what you think of the Accession and the Reflex M . . . (yes, the loan scheme is a great idea!)
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2018 at 8:40pm
I'll second the Gyrodec and suggest looking second hand.
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tmoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 4:36pm
Thanks all for the thoughts. I welcome any others of course :)

I hope to get the trial units in soon and go from there. If I hear a big difference with my lowly U-Turn I'll get one of the pre-amps.

Alternately I'll look to upgrade the TT itself though I may put that off for budgetary reasons.

I've recently had the Technics 1200G recommended to me and plan on giving it a listen soon...
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Clearaudio Performance DC with Clarify Tonearm + Concerto V2 cart -> Accession MC -> Pass Labs INT-60 -> KEF Reference 3's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morris_minor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 5:50pm
Hi Tony - I was just looking at the U-Turn website (what a good site! I like the little setup videos . . ) and I see you can disable the built in phono amp. A question I'd have is whether the phono amp is bypassed completely or whether the phono signal still gets routed through it but not EQ'd or amplified. Ideally the signal should go nowhere near the built in stage if you don't want it to.

You mention the 1200G; now THAT would be nice Wink.
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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tmoody View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tmoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 6:09pm
That's an interesting question - thanks for raising it. The good news is that the founders provide excellent customer support, so I suspect I can get a quick response. The bad news is that best guess is that there's no way to completely cut the built in stage out of the route entirely. I will ask though!

And yes, that 1200G looks very interesting the more I look into it. I have a good relationship with a local dealer who has offered me a good deal on the TT and basically anything in the Ortofon line.

I've been interested to read GS's take on MC vs MM, which, if I understand the short of it, is that in a sense MM is 'easier' to make sound great, whereas MC is more subject to poorly done phono stage detraction. 

I wish I could test the 1200G with both an MM and an MC, like the 2M Black and Cadenza Black, and use an Accession and Accession MC respectively.

Unfortunately I'll probably have to make a decision to go one way or another without being able to hear all of that in advance.
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Clearaudio Performance DC with Clarify Tonearm + Concerto V2 cart -> Accession MC -> Pass Labs INT-60 -> KEF Reference 3's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tmoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by morris_minor morris_minor wrote:

Hi Tony - I was just looking at the U-Turn website (what a good site! I like the little setup videos . . ) and I see you can disable the built in phono amp. A question I'd have is whether the phono amp is bypassed completely or whether the phono signal still gets routed through it but not EQ'd or amplified. Ideally the signal should go nowhere near the built in stage if you don't want it to.

You mention the 1200G; now THAT would be nice Wink.

As predicted, a quick response. Not as predicted: good news!

"Good question - the built-in preamp is fully bypassable, so the signal will not go through the preamp when it is disengaged."
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