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When is RIAA not RIAA? |
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morris_minor 
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Joined: 27 Mar 2012 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 6197 |
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 Topic: When is RIAA not RIAA?Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 11:32am |
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Bob
Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
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Graham Slee
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Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16314 |
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Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 12:13pm |
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I see that "Tubular Tom" - in the comments section - has fallen for the BS surrounding RIAA...
For years I believed the same, but a nagging-doubt kept entering my mind. It eventually led to the "phono stage invention". So I reckoned, if I'm wrong I'll soon know, because when I listen to it, and when I measure it, the EQ will be all wrong... Nothing of the sort! Quite a few people have listened to it at three UK shows - and liked it - plus the EQ is as accurate as component accuracy allows. Records were produced for the masses - not just for magnetic cartridge owners. All the different EQs suited the reproduction equipment favoured (and often made) by the record labels... HMV records - HMV record players - HMV reproduction curves, for one. RIAA Records are cut with (negative) constant velocity up to 50Hz (to provide bass boost to compensate the poor bass output of crystal cartridges); constant amplitude to 500Hz; constant velocity again to 2122Hz (to counter the resonance of crystal cartridges); and from there at constant amplitude to wherever the cutter head output falls. Let's abbreviate that sequence to VAVA. Enter the magnetic cartridge - its constant velocity output changes VAVA to AVAV. The magnetic cartridge phono preamp equalises the record "upside down" - it does A where it's a V, and V where it's an A. OK, you get the desired outcome as far as measurement is concerned, but it is not the inverse used in disc cutting. The ear is most sensitive at mid frequencies (300Hz to 3kHz) so the last two A's and V's are the important ones. Should VA sound right when EQ'd AV, or would it be best done VA? The only way to do that is by removing the magnetic cartridge response - to EQ that first and make its constant velocity output into one of constant amplitude. Only then can the record be EQ'd "right way up". Then all of a sudden, the mid-range edginess so often heard with "bad recordings" doesn't seem so bad anymore... Seek and ye shall find...  |
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Bi-wire
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Joined: 21 Jan 2011 Location: Shropshire, UK Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 12:44pm |
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Interesting and quite heated stuff, if one reads all the comments too. I use a Revelation M and most of the time the settings are left at RIAA. I'm sure that most of my record collection conforms to RIAA but it is intreresting sometimes to play around with the settings, particularly if the recording in question sounds a little thin or flat in RIAA. Occasionally, an improvement, at least to my ears, can be heard - and I would stress that it is my perception of the sound, not a definitive answer. These are, I assume, RIAA recordings but they can be tweaked if one wishes.
I also have a small number of 1950s recordings where the Revelation really comes into its own. Particularly some RCA and Decca FFRR records which, I understand, use their own curves. Here, using the recommended settings certainly pays dividends. I don't pretend to understand the technicalities and reading articles on this subject has shown me that there is agreat deal to it. Moreover, I suspect that there is a grey area (period) covering the late-50s (early-60s?) as RIAA was gradually adopted but other curves were also being used. Consequently, these days I tend to go with my ears.
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Peter
Satisfied user of: Revelation M, PSU1-Enigma, Solo SRGII and lots of CuSat50 |
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suede
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Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 12:54pm |
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Is that to say they (the harsh sounding records) sound a lot better than they did before? Or do they even outperform the previously favoured non-edgy sounding cuts? Very interesting either way. Edited by suede - 09 Oct 2014 at 12:57pm |
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Proprius, Reflex M, Solo UL, Bitzie, CuSats & Spatia
--------------------------------- Johan |
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Graham Slee
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Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 1:29pm |
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Do you remember me going on about my Yes: Close To The Edge album? I can now play it and enjoy it. IMO, it is a better sound to my ears on all my records. |
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That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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morris_minor
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Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 2:37pm |
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The notion that switchable EQ is
is quite obviously nonsense, and must raise questions about the reviewer's ability to sensibly evaluate any piece of audio equipment. |
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Bob
Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
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suede
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Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 3:13pm |
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That sounds mightily intriguing! And I do remember a suggestion how one might enjoy CTTE the better, even with the now established shortcomings of the standard RIAA Edited by suede - 09 Oct 2014 at 3:23pm |
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Proprius, Reflex M, Solo UL, Bitzie, CuSats & Spatia
--------------------------------- Johan |
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