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Digitising LPs - a question for Graham

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2012 at 8:55am
Following up on my previous reply I decided to see what would be necessary to do a "flat corrected" curve on the DIY Genera phono preamp so that a magnetic cartridge would reproduce any record output without any particular equalisation standard. In other words "flat" or the response you'd have gotten from a ceramic or crystal cartridge (but better "fidelity").

These are the component changes:

C3 A&B: link
C4 A&B: link
R6 A&B: remove
R7 A&B: 30 Ohms (33 Ohms will do)
R5 A&B: 470k Ohms

This gives a falling response from 35Hz (-3dB turnover point) at the rate of -6dB per octave to counter the rising +6dB per octave response of the magnetic cartridge.

To go lower at the bass end - to cut from a lower frequency - would require a considerable rethink.

The curve is shown below...




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tg [RIP] View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tg [RIP] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2012 at 2:21pm

Finally used the Phase 26 USB to actually record a few takes of the same album today.

Using the Technics with a DL110 and 1Kohm parallel load into the phono inputs of the unit.

Using Sony Sound Forge Studio as the only software I had that could both use ASIO drivers and VST plugins, other software that looked promising could not use ASIO drivers or was looking like taking too long to work out how to use it (Ableton seemed to have a better interface to both the driver and the plugin but is geared to multitrack recording and mixing).

Whatever, sound level good, without clipping being apparent, so boosted BUT NOT EQUALISED.

This was quite easy to hear on playback, this is an album I already had a fairly good recording of to use as a reference.

Ran the supplied RIAA plugin over the file et voila - does the business.

Much fooling around with different post-processing and different sample rates, 24/88.2 and 16/44.1 both tried.  Results yet to be fully evaluated, but appears to work as described, monitoring during recording via Solo/K701 did not indicate the "tilted" sound that could be heard on playback.

Still seems really odd that they should Eq the direct hardware path from input to output but not the recorded signal sent back via USB.

Edited the above following further more careful evaluation.

As Alice said, "it gets curiouser and curiouser" - stay tuned for further inciting instalments.

Nearly forgot, Graham, that is very interesting what you have done to the Genera output, I am so glad I no longer have the one I built, I would likely think I needed to try that too. Ouch



Edited by tg - 14 Jan 2012 at 2:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tg [RIP] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2012 at 2:17am

One unexpected outcome from the above fooling around, I noted the output of one channel to be perhaps -3dB cf the other over several different records.

A careful check of azimuth setting on the headshell in question, followed by a slight adjustment (the headshell offers azimuth adjustment) resulted in nearly perfect channel balance.

With, naturally, a rather better centred image (although that is often suspect in my system due to speaker placement constraints - one reason that I like - where possible - to have a balance control).

The wonders of technology Wink

Of course I had to then re-record the sides with mismatch Ouch

The hardest part of this whole exercise has been achieving an input level that does not clip.

I would much prefer to use the Reflex for phono pre duties but cannot lower the output sufficiently with means at hand (available preamps are not sufficiently transparent and tend to remove most of the advantage in SQ of using the Reflex) - the latest - USB2 capable - interface from Terratec offers onboard gain controls which might be good.

Perhaps the Aria will be available soon and might be OK for the purpose.




Edited by tg - 14 Jan 2012 at 2:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tg [RIP] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2012 at 12:21am

Interesting find on tnt-audio http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/rip_it_4_e.html a 4 part series covering various experiments over a number of years.

He has tried a few of the same pieces of gear that I have although ending with a rather more expensive solution.

He also identified the same input level control issue and recommends the same click removal software that I prefer.

Of particular interest, to me at least and hopefully to anyone else reading this, the page linked covers various software applications available, with some testing methodology for their accuracy and usage, most especially WRT sample rate conversion performance.

There is also a deal of useful information concerning the use of higher accuracy sampling rates during the digital processing phase, prior to downsampling to Redbook and the desirability of doing all digital manipulation in 32bit floating point.  I found this information both readily accessible and easily digested, there are also links to further reading on the subject.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2012 at 9:58pm
Thanks Tony, that is a very helpful resource.
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 6:33pm
I have one of the same soundcards as Tony and had forgotten this thread. More thanks and recommended for a sticky!
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 7:01pm
I have made up a couple of phono leads to connect my Reflex M to my M-Audio 2496 with some attenuation of about -10dB built in. I record at full level and then boost by a few decibels if necessary for quieter LP's.
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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