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Cock-ups With Ceramics

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Graham Slee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2023 at 5:38pm
So what is the right level of attenuation we need to feed the ceramic signal into an MM sensitivity phono stage?

Firstly that depends on the sensitivity (at 1kHz) of the phono stage, but rather than talk of it in voltage, we could try signal level in dB (decibels).

Most MM phono stages give 40dB 1kHz gain.

We expect about 300mV out of the MM phono stage to suit the sensitivity of the line input of a preamp or integrated amp.

So, what's the rated output of the 9TA cartridge?

Some say 70mV. Some say 0.4V. Others say 0.2V (0.2V = 200mV). Well, one thing I can be certain of is 200mV is close enough to what the average line input sensitivity used to be on most amps.

And that's the sort of output level you'd expect from an MM amp with a 2mV output MM cartridge - such as a Gram Amp 2.

So, the lines on the graphs I've been showing you really ought to be crossing 1kHz at -40dB.

Now, -40dB is a hundredth, and the rate of cut is 20dB per decade, so if it's -40dB at 1kHz, the high pass cut needs to be at 100kHz.

The source capacitance is 600pF (+/-10%), so by

1/2pi * C * F

Then the value of the load needs to be

1/2pi * 0.0006 * 100,000 = 2.65k

And as the input impedance of a MM stage is 47k, then the resistance in parallel with it that gives 2.65k is

1/(1/2.65 - 1/47) = 2.8k

The nearest commonly available value is 2.7k, so I'll be using that.

So that sets it at the minimum recommended range for a Gram Amp 2, so if we use a selection of ceramic cartridges with some up to 1V output, we're covered.

The rest of the circuit is that series 68k || 470pF between the pick-up and the load resistor.

Another thing to note is the 100pF arm cable capacitance. If the "Velocitone" is at the phono stage input, the cable divides the cartridge output down by

20 * (log of 1 + (100pF/600pF)) = 1.3dB

If the "Velicitone" is placed in the head shell, the arm cable capacitance comes after, and therefore does not attenuate the signal.

1.3dB hardly matters either way, so the "Velocitone" can be put where it's most convenient.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2023 at 8:01pm
So how does it sound this time?

I'm using an old Gram Amp 2 Communicator and I think it has the NE5532 op-amp, so is sweet sounding in the upper mids, and I'm playing "Milagro" by Santana, which is a quiet recording, and so the Majestic preamp is up at 12 o'clock.

The hissy brightness is gone.

In fact, I'd call it smooth with extra o's.

Does it trawl the bass? No, it's slightly light, but the bass is definitely there, but lacking a little authority.

I've built the "Velocitone" on a piece of parallel tag strip, and I'll photograph it later so you can see how simple it is. It's all scrap box apart from the resistors and capacitors being new stock.

Perhaps I should do as I say and let it age a few days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2023 at 8:35pm
&quot;Velocitone&quot; circuit board
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sylvain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2023 at 9:07pm
This is proving interesting  .....I remember the 60's Ceramic cartridge and this so e well x elaborated and eplained may ditch the Dynavertor 10, cheapest version, for the distinct Ceramic sound. And I thought ceramic was the better evolution of the Gramophone  but here to complement Op-Amp technology  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikeh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2023 at 9:33pm
It seems Sonitone did a pretty good job with the original Velocitone and ceramics can sound better than their image when hooked up to good electrics. Makes me wonder what more modern materials science would add to the story.
Mike

Technics sl1210g with Victor U-2 or Technics EPC-205C mk4
Accession MM, Majestic + Proprius, Solo ULDE
Innuos Zen mini mk3 streamer
Harbeth P3ESR XD paired with 2x REL t5x
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2023 at 10:32am
Update on SQ.

I ought to have used brand new phono sockets as the LHC kept cutting out. A goodly amount of "exercising it" seems to have made it make better contact, but there is obviously that lingering doubt. I will have to use a plastic box and machine it for the "PCB" type pressed metal sockets we use on products the next time. Some think them inferior, and the gold plated single screw on sockets superior, but I've got news for them...

The sound quality, i.e. tonal quality, improved with use. The bass became fuller. Just leaving it on won't improve it simply because it is a passive circuit. Current has to flow for a circuit of electronic components to age, and so it can only age through use.

The next vinyl to play was "To Our Children's Children" by the Moody Blues.

The intro didn't sound as dramatic as I'm used to and was tonally all over the place, but here I'm nit picking.

There is a definite stereo image, and I think it will give perspective and be lucid. However, some of that felt a bit restrained, but might be because of the "nudity" of the cartridge. If I remember correctly, some removed the metal jacket in a bid to make the cartridge sound less tinny. Obviously they were not using the Velocitone into a good MM phono stage.

Downforce is set to 2.5g (mn) and very little bias. VTA might be out and I will have to try magnification to see the stylus tip angle. It should be 20 degrees to the vertical and I think it might be shallower.

I am using two Technics 2g head shell weights, without which the arm will not balance within its range.

I got a new aftermarket replacement stylus from "Get The Needle" run by a chap called Tony Hughes, who says he has a number of 9TA stylus left. I have yet to try the new stylus. It's an LP/LP flip over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2023 at 9:33am
The record player's been playing music, but not in the accepted way. I don't mean that the record player was playing records while suspended in a bath of water, no, I mean I've not been playing the accepted stuff.

I've dared not to play "the 10 most difficult rock records to test your hi-fi" or other cult/marketing BS (otherwise known as link juice in the money desperate SEO/life coach world).

No, I played "Fragile" by Yes, and "Hunky Dory" by David Bowie.

There's something really musical about hearing music, don't you think?

I think I'll dig out my Peter Gabriel album, the one known as "Peter Gabriel," and I'll play "A Wonderful Day In A One-Way World."

You know it's one way when you hear music so good via something that the world took away.

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