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Accession Duo

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Graham Slee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2017 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by shashirao shashirao wrote:

A quick layman question:

I have always used MC carts...and currently have a fabulous experience with the Accession/Elevator combo.

Should I expect better sound with the Accession MC? Or would I be better off with an MM cart and drop the Elevator?

Cheers
Shashi


Best to try it as soon as Bruce has one (assuming USA here).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gijo1977 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2017 at 1:25pm
Sorry for my late arrival!

I am sitting here in my listening room with the Australian Accession loaner, trying to determine what I need to buy, so I only have to buy once........ and boom the Duo discussion is located :)

I am currently listening to an RP6/Dynavector 10x5| Accession| NAD C388 combo and really happy with the sound. The Accession is a big improvement on the in built stage, so I am now checking all of my future needs against the available solutions to then stump up the $$$$$.

+1 for MM/MC option 

My needs may be a little more easily reached, as I would be impressed and a near immediate purchaser of an Accession M + Elevator duo box (I see advantages in the power supply and interconnect proposition) making it a direct single box competitor to the phono amp touted as having 'synergistic advantages' with my TT...

Also, what would it take to create a Reflex combo, given the lack of switches etc... maybe this is the mass-market option 80-20 and all that :) (Massive thought bubble, disregard as necessary)

Good luck, I will maintain a bit of a watch on the forum.

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Graham Slee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2017 at 8:22am
MC is one of the greatest marketing pull-offs of last century and this one.

"And all the children lost down many paths
I bet my life you'll walk inside
Hand in hand
Gland in gland
With a spoonful of miracle
He's the guaranteed eternal sanctuary
We will rock you, rock you little snake
We will keep you snug and warm"

The high frequencies on a record - frequencies above 10kHz that is - are almost all harmonics. Fundamental frequencies of instruments are all just about covered by a 5kHz bandwidth. Adult hearing soon falls to 12 or 13 kHz.

Vinyl can go to 25kHz but up there the distortion increases dramatically and can reach 100% easily. When musical harmonics meet harmonic distortion, artefacts (bad noises) "drop out" in the frequency range we can all hear.

MCs are so good at high frequencies that we get much more of these bad noises than we do with the so-called flawed MM cartridge. We pay through the nose to get worse sound.

Any good designer will try his (her) (its) best to make the MC section sound the best it can - to try and minimise all the distortion. The MC section is a difficult circuit to start with. Done right it will be downright truthful. The customer will be rubbing his hands together, watering at the mouth at what is about to be received, but if the designer makes a truthful circuit the results aren't going to be very palatable.

The highs have to be massaged one way or another, or aftersales marketing has to be used to convince the customer to not play distorted records.

A distorted record is any mass-market record. The more complex the sound the more disorted it will be. And so you will be encouraged to play simple music or music specifically produced to make audiophile discs such that it will not hurt the ears.

To me, this is ridiculous.

As I want my customers to be able to enjoy as much of their music as possible I spend probably too much of my time taming the vicious results MC often brings.

Now, if I made a switch to make such a circuit work at MM levels, the result would be plain boring.

This is exactly what a MM/MC stage achieves, and is why I am unable to bring myself to make one.

The only way to make a "MM/MC stage" is to make two completely different phono sections and put them in the same box. Hence the Accession Duo.

But don't be surprised to find MM urinating all over the precious MC. But it will not have been made to be that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sheepskinstu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2017 at 9:16am
Hooray for moving magnet! I love my Goldring moving iron cartridge. Have I fallen into a similar trap Graham?   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drewan77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2017 at 3:42pm
Although I use MM cartridges and am unlikely to move to MC for various reasons, I have always been intrigued by Grahams' views on this, hopefully resulting more from his time & frustration in producing something that lives up to his high standards rather than just cartridge manufacturers marketing spin. 

I have heard many Moving Coil variants over the years that sounded fabulous to my ears, including a few via either the Reflex C or an Elevator & it seems very likely that an MC Accession/Duo will surpass both of those.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2017 at 8:48am
In designing these things I have to figure out what in the sound is my fault and what isn't.

I cannot put right these:

Preceding? (what went on in the control room/booth)

Vinyl manufacture

mastering tape distortion
lathe rotation distortion
lathe electronics distortion
cutter head distortion
stamping distortion
handling distortion

Turntable repro (the customer's gear)

turntable rotation distortion
tracking distortion
VTA distortion
azimuth distortion
arm bearing distortion
high frequency groove distortion
cartridge distortion
dirt distortion
wear distortion

Wiring

electro magnetic distortion

But I have to put right these:

Phono stage

parasitic distortion
"Moore's" distortion

THD distortion
noise distortion
IMD distortion

But there's the thereafter - the rest of the system I don't have any control over.

Arm bearing distortion, parasitic distortion and "Moore's" distortion (in bold above) are particularly insidious when it comes to moving coil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2017 at 7:34pm
Suspecting a fair bit of wear on the DL103 and the reserve Eroica LH also being long in the tooth, I decided to obtain a new DL103, and one of Bob's favourites, the Hana EL. The Hana is now mounted in my only ADC (BSR) magnesium alloy headshell, and playing Fragile by Yes. I'm impressed right from the off!

I'm still waiting for the DL103 which I bought from one of our dealers... Ouch
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