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Trouble with Goldring 1042 |
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patientot
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Joined: 28 Nov 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1778 |
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Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 8:20pm |
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@Fatmangolf,
The records that the 1042 seems to have the most trouble with are things like the Willie Nile s/t LP I played today with my Stanton/Jico Shibata combo. The U.S. pressing of this album has very narrow deadwax (esp. on side 2) and is cut a little hot. The Stanton sailed right through but I doubt the 1042 would without distortion. Obviously I need to do some more testing when the GS phono stage arrives. The other day I was playing Texas - Southside LP (U.S. promo pressing) and it was so bad toward the end of side 2 with the 1042 that I had to turn it off. Didn't do a great job with Depeche Mode - MFTM (2015 reissue) either but that record is going to be trouble for most cartridges. Other things I'm thinking about: Big Country's debut (U.S. pressing), any Skids UK pressings, The Jam - In the City (1st UK), 999 - Separates (UK pressing), etc. I think you get my drift. Late 70s, early 80s through mid 80s music. RE: K-Tel, IIRC they crammed songs on each side by cutting the level lower - so those may not be cut hot or as challenging to track like the records I mentioned above. Re: alignment, Stevenson based alignment has always served me well because that's what my old Japanese direct drive turntables were based around. AFAIK Stevenson optimizes for the inner groove rather than the average distortion across the record, which is what Lofgren/Baerwald do. UNI-DIN is something I've never tried - I'd have to look into it. FWIW, my tastes are fairly diverse across my collection (~1200 LPs) and I can't be bothered to change cartridges if I want to go switch up genres frequently in a listening session. Any cart I have needs to do everything reasonably well or it has to go. I appreciate your suggestions and I plan to do some experimenting with the cartridge when the GS phono stage gets here, but if that doesn't fix it the cart is either going back to Goldring for inspection or I'm going to sell it. Running out of patience with this thing.
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Fatmangolf
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Joined: 23 Dec 2009 Location: Middlesbrough Status: Offline Points: 9695 |
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Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 11:46am |
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Hi David, that's very helpful information as I have UK first pressings of the Big Country and Texas first albums. First of all I wanted to agree with you on having one cartridge to play everything, my headshells are all fixed so it would be quite a chore to fit a different cartridge when playing different records. Setup note: my 1042 is on an Origin Live Zephyr arm mounted on my Sl1210/II. It is going into my Accession M with 0pF added load. I double-checked the lateral alignment for this and the Hana SL mentioned later. Both are standard Baerwald/Lofgren A for IEC so nulls 66/121, set with the stylus tip and cantilever with 2 different protractors. I also use a 10x magnifier but I do this for all my setups, not just the 1042. Even so there's a limit to the accuracy, I'd guess +/- 0.1mm at my best and similar degrees, which are huge compared to the groove and stylus tip dimensions of course. I have just played 'Porrohman,' the last track on side of Big Country's 'The Crossing,' and it is a quite loud cut, I can hear it is compressed/limited but not badly distorted otherwise. The song runs in from about 88mm to 60mm, i.e. right up to the IEC inner groove. Texas' 'Future is promises' runs from 78mm to 65mm so not as close to the IEC inner groove but over 4 minutes and quite loud. No obvious distortion and I could hear all the parts, I also listened out for sibilance which you'd expect with words like station, promises, chance. Fine with 0pF so I tried switching in all 320pF and heard the crisp treble I expected but the sibilance wasn't a problem. 'Porrohman' with 320pF is crisper and I can hear it's a hot pressing. It is not obviously distorted and I'd say the 1042 does a decent job. Playing it on my Gorbe (Gyrodek with Orbe platter) with SME series IV arm and Hana SL going into the Accession MC is not a fair comparison to the other setup but... what I heard was more detail. It is more obvious that there's a lot of processed percussion and everything is close miked, pop production and a loud ending track on an LP. I must also say you've reminded how much I like this song, I liked it on the LP and it was great live. My conclusion is you've given me a new test track to use David and I came up with three options: 1) The 1042 may be very fussy and needs a precise setup of azimuth and SRA to deliver its best sound 2) Your 1042 is faulty e.g. laterally stylus not square to cantilever or vertically the rake angle is out. This is supported by the better experiences with other carts. 3) My setup for the 1042 is so different to yours that I may be wasting your time! Having confirmed my 1042 is fine on 66/121, I would probably not switch to a smaller inner null for general use. It is tempting to try something UNI-DIN where the inner null is between 66 and the 60 for Stephenson IEC. If nothing else it eliminates the lateral misalignment and I agree Stephenson is a good way to try this as it uses 60mm for the inner null. Definitely worth checking the other setup variable are right. I would check the azimuth with a small mirror to make sure the cartridge is vertical and stylus correctly in the groove (assuming precise manufacture). My last thought is to experiment with the vertical alignment i.e. the stylus rake angle. I am using 1.8g compared to your 2g. The extra 0.2g of VTF will effectively push the stylus end of the cantilever up so if that's improving the tracking you could try lowering the arm base or put a thin spacer (small washers or thin card) between cartridge and headshell to get the same geometry. Hope this helps David. Sorry for your frustration.
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Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
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patientot
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Joined: 28 Nov 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1778 |
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Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 2:59pm |
Thanks for humoring me and running these tests. Yes, your system and setup are quite different from mine and the U.S. and UK cuts of these albums may be a little different as well, but it's interesting information if nothing else. When the GS phono stage gets here I'm going to remount the 1042 in a different headshell. The magnesium HS I was using is a little taller than the stock or other aluminum one I have. I think that was the causing the arm to slope down a bit which may not be the optimal VTA for the cartridge, and as you said, this one may just be very fussy with all this stuff. My arm is not height adjustable so I have to rely on things like shorter or taller headshells and shims to change VTA, and it's not usually something I mess around with extensively. RE: azimuth, I did adjust for it slightly before using a business card shim. It's definitely not exact science, but I compared the output of a Beatles mono reissue both "regular" and summed to mono using the mono switch on my phono pre. I looked at the channel differences at both the regular and summed and they were so minute that the results had to be expressed in exponents! So I think the business card shim worked. I will transfer this shim to the other headshell when I remount the 1042.
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Fatmangolf
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Joined: 23 Dec 2009 Location: Middlesbrough Status: Offline Points: 9695 |
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Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 7:34pm |
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Hi David, based on that information I think adjusting your 1042's VTA is the next thing to try. Assuming sloping down means down towards the cartridge, perhaps you could lower the cartridge with a spacer, thick business card(s) or thin plastic cut to fit on top of the cartridge with screw holes. Your Stanton probably has a sperical/conical stylus tip which gives a small contact spot each side when new. So it's quite tolerant of beng tail up or tail down. Any stylus with an extended contact in the groove needs the stylus rake angle (SRA) to be like the cutter's or the stylus will have a little time smear/phase distortion and the risk of mistracking, especially on hot pressings. Just get the top of the 1042 almost parallel to the record when playing and see how it sounds. Azimuth will also be factor and it sounds like you've nailed that so I hope dialing in the SRA is the missing link. |
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Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
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patientot
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Joined: 28 Nov 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1778 |
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Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 7:52pm |
Yes, sloping down towards the pivot to the cartridge with the magnesium headshell. I need a different headshell or a spacer to make the pivot level. Re: my Stanton 680, it actually has a Shibata stylus on it right now. It came with a heavier tracking elliptical but since I can't stand IGD I put a Jico Shibata on it. I don't use conicals whatsoever except my Shure M35X which I only use for records in very rough shape, which are very few in my collection. At any rate, the Stanton 680 is mounted on the JVC OEM headshell, which is shorter than the aftermarket magnesium HS, so the arm and pivot are quite level. I just remounted the 1042 on a spare headshell which is shorter like the OEM. Unfortunately I figured out why I don't like this headshell. The slots are too short to push the cartridge back far enough to get the correct JVC overhang/alignment. I may have to get another headshell with longer slots or find a spacer for the magnesium headshell. I'm not sure I have a spacer that is thick enough around. I might be able to rig up something with some tiny metal and plastic washers. I have a metal weight plate but that is going to add 3g to the headshell and possibly throw off other things so I don't want to use that. I don't know why cartridge or HS manufacturers don't include sets of stackable 1-2mm lightweight plastic spacers. It would be nice if they did.
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Graham Slee
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Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16314 |
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Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 10:53pm |
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Add an extra mat!
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That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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patientot
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Joined: 28 Nov 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1778 |
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Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 11:46pm |
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An extra mat could work. I tried that but unfortunately the only secondary mat I have is on another turntable, and it's very thin, not thick enough to correct the VTA fully. I suppose I could buy a thick slipmat or something, but I don't want to do that just yet. I may try it if my next idea doesn't work.
I went ahead and ordered a new headshell, this one is shorter than the magnesium one and mounts from the top rather than the bottom, and it appears to have longer slots that should accommodate the overhang I need. It even has a screw for azimuth adjustment so I can ditch the business card shim. I probably won't need a spacer with it for VTA, but if I do, it will fit. I tried to make the MG headshell work with the 1042 and spacers but it's impossible due to the shape of the Goldring body. The body has an angled shape that makes it impossible to use longer screws from the bottom, and the MG has no top mount holes. I could've taken the OEM headshell from my Stanton and put the Stanton on the MG, but I don't feel like doing that since the Stanton is dialed in just right on the OEM HS. Good news is the GS phono stage is set up, so it's ready to go when my new HS gets here early next week.
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