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Torroid Transformer Hum

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Graham Slee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 6:23pm
The ac mains waveform is 650V p-p. You'd need to transform it down. You should still see the so-called "DC offset".

By stating there is DC on the mains it is quite misleading, what it actually is (unless I'm very mistaken) is a little like second harmonic distortion, where one side of the waveform is more/fatter than the other.

I find it difficult to believe there is actually real DC at some (small level) deliberately put on the mains, about which the ac swings...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackinBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 6:40pm
I think "DC" is a simple term for a complex phenomenon. However the simple series capacitor with bypass diodes "DC Trap" does appear to work for some.
Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ernie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2017 at 2:04pm
This is all getting very technical. You've got a humming transformer because it's built on a laminated core. It'll be the laminations ringing in time with the mains supply 50Hz.

I went through a diy phase about 10 years ago and I too bought transformers from RS. They are, for want of a better word, crap. They buzz like a wasp.

I used Cambridge Windings at the time. Custom made on ferrite cores and as silent as the grave. They made me a couple of 300VA transforms for a Naim 135 clone I was building. They were too expensive either.

Theres nowt wrong with your main supply, don't waste your time (and money) arsing around within cables and filters your transformer is just mechanically challenged.



Edited by Ernie - 25 Mar 2017 at 2:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2017 at 7:28pm
Chris, we were just giving Peter the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps Peter does have a buzzing transformer?

So what makes transformer laminations buzz?

Could it be that the laminations aren't stuck together with enough varnish?

Varnish does help, but it is magnetisation current which causes one transformer to buzz more than another.

A high magnetisation current results in a lot of buzz, and conversely, low magnetisation current results in a quieter transformer.

Magnetisation current depends on the quality of the lamination materal used. When I'm talking to my manufacturer we just call it steel because we're past that "one upmanship age".

Poor quality transformer "steel" takes a lot more magnetisation current, and most off-the-shelf transformers from the "shed" type suppliers (RS etc) are made using inferior stuff from you know where.

Our transformer manufacturer is also an aerospace/military supplier, and is also quite close to a source of specialist "steels" (the benefits from being near Sheffield ... ).

Our transformers therefore buzz less. But another benefit is that more power is available at the secondary, because less power is wasted making the transfomer transform.

And for all who did ONC, you know, where the electrical guy goes on about transformers being a "perfect machine" - well, they're not!

That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peterb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2017 at 1:22pm
Thanks for your input everyone.
I bought the potted toroidal transformer from RS as it was made by a recognised European maker and sold as "very low induced noise (hum)". Plus I thought a one off bespoke would be too expensive.
Maybe a poor choice!
I checked out Rod Elliots webpage on noise from toroids and used his simple resistor-capacitor DC checker. The DC shown on the mains supply to my Amp was negligible one day, 200mV another.
However the trafo hummed both days!
I think I will ask RS to take it back and go looking for a a bespoke.

You live and learn.....hopefully!

Peter
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Dual 505-1, Cyrus CD T, DIY 80W MosFet amp and PreAmp, 2xKEF 103.2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackinBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2017 at 1:49pm
It does seem that the hum is above that that should be acceptable, RS will most likely replace it as it should be classified as faulty.
I have previously used Antrim transformers, now part of Trans-Tronic I understand. Those I have (25, 50 and 300VA) don't hum. The smaller ones have potted centres which makes mounting easier and perhaps helps reduce hum. I don't know if they sell direct, ut I'm sure they would advise where to buy.
Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gwebster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2017 at 2:02pm
The non-potted (250VA) toroidal in my recently built power amp is silent as the night. It's one of Farnell's own-brand Multicomp range (MCTA250/30, order code 9530797). Might be worth looking at their 300VA version.

Geoff
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