New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The switched PSU chirps
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Welcome to the Graham Slee Audio Products Owners Forum

 

Open to all owners plus those contemplating the purchase of a Graham Slee HiFi System Components audio product and wishing to use this forum's loaner program: join here (Rules on posting can be found here)

This website along with trade marks Graham Slee and HiFi System Components are owned by Cadman Enterprises Ltd


The switched PSU chirps

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>
Author
ServerBaboon View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Location: NW England
Status: Offline
Points: 970
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ServerBaboon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2008 at 10:43pm

In the end, although we talked on the phone about returning just the one to check, I did send both back as a comparison of one which I wasn't sure was a problem (Suppose I should be happy my HF hearing is still intact at 40) , and the other which I felt was significantly louder (noiser) which I attached the tape to. Did you not detect any difference between the two smps, one is a flash gun and one 'chirps' for want of a better phrase.

Is/has Fritz returning/ed his yet?

As I said since I returned a smps I wasn't sure about I'm quite happy to stand the postage cost back just PM me the costs.

Back to Top
Graham Slee View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Retired

Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Location: South Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 16314
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2008 at 11:40pm
Hi Steve,

I can hear the one with the tape on the lead. It emits a high pitched whistle to my ears. During the day when I listen to Radio 4 in the workshop I have to listen hard for it, but this evening with nothing switched on but the test gear (silent) and the soldering iron (silent too) I could easily hear the whistle seated within 18 inches of it. The other one that's on another wall socket a further 2 or 3 feet from my seated position I can't hear at all - probably drowned out by the first one.

I last measured my hearing a few years ago (age 50 ish then) and I could hear up to 13kHz. John is bringing Leo tomorrow and they'll be testing their own hearing with the test gear oscillator. John is about your age and Leo is early 30's. I'll report back on that shortly.

As for the exchange, don't worry, they'll be sent in the next few days. Postage cost is not a problem. I'm grateful for the feedback, but I am frustrated, not with you but the idiots we somehow elected to govern us for their incompetent handling of the green issue.
That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
Back to Top
dvv View Drop Down
Regular
Regular
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Location: Belgrade, Serbi
Status: Offline
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dvv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2008 at 7:17pm
I think the chirping noise comes more often than not from the ferrite rings in the PSUs. There are two things you can do about this.
 
One is to use larger output signal capacitors, e.g. if you currently have sau 100 uF, try with a 220 uF cap, that sometimes cures things and provides the added benefit of still cleaner power.
 
The other is to use some silicon paste/glue compound on the wirewound ferrite rings. Make VERY sure you are using thermally insensitive (400 deg. centigrade) compound. It's the same stuff they use to fix the large capacitors to the PCB, milky white, takes a few days to harden. But when it does, it kills chirping on the ferrite rings stone dead.
 
Graham, I have had this problem as well, it's in the domain of sympathetic vibration, and that you can never foresee, it just happens under certain conditions and that's it.
Back to Top
FritzS View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Austria
Status: Offline
Points: 134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FritzS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2008 at 7:24am
Hi Graham,
what`s the latest knowledge about? Should I send back this one PSU and you give me a new and tested?
AKG K812, K872, K712, Q701, K701, K501, K550, K271, Denon AH-D 7000
"Green" SOLO (with LME49860NA), WNA MKII
Marantz SA7001 KI, Philips CD650
Revox B790, G1042, Reflex
Back to Top
Graham Slee View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Retired

Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Location: South Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 16314
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2008 at 8:05am
Hi FritzS,

We've had the ones back from Serverbaboon plugged-in for near on two weeks now, and admit they do make a noise. But they don't do "chirp, chirp, chirp". Three of us have listened to them at close quarters, aged mid thirties to mid fifties, with keen to average listening abilities, and we can report that they whistle quietly. We've yet to hear them chirping like a canary.

We agree to replacing your SM-PS and will send Serverbaboon two to replace his. I have three plugged in permanently here for my own audio system. If I listen closely to them, yes they do emit a whistling sound, but even in the dead of night, a couple of metres away and nobody here hears them - not even my 9 year old son. I guess if we had a dog it could be different.

My Nokia mobile phone charger does exactly the same. Unlike computer switched-mode supplies, these plug tops work similarly to energy saving light bulbs (which are becoming mandatory in places like Australia) where the frequency of operation is just above the audio spectrum.

The operating frequency lies between 20 and 40 kHz. Components within the plug top will mechanically resonate (even if they're glued down) at such a frequency, just like glass can break with a good female opera singer!

FritzS, I will send you a new tested one, but if that develops the same whistle then I'm sorry - it's simply a fact of life. It's a fact of life brought on by EU, Australian and Californian politicians. If the second one is not to your liking would you please plant it in the cranium of one of the EU instigators? After all, the seat of EU power is easier to get to from Austria than it is from here (by car).

At the end of the day, the "green" Solo was always advertised as a pre-release product pilot sold at a highly discounted price - not a mainstream product, and as such some imperfections are to be expected. To say there are no imperfections like this in the item we make, but just the little power supply, isn't bad? And for a few Euro's it can be cheaply replaced by a linear plug top power supply that doesn't whistle - I'd say you've got a bargain Hug (the emoticon means "hug")


Edited by Graham Slee - 17 Apr 2008 at 8:06am
That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
Back to Top
ServerBaboon View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Location: NW England
Status: Offline
Points: 970
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ServerBaboon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2008 at 12:46pm
Ok, I think in my case it was more of a cccccccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrpppppppppppppppppp than a chirp, chirp, chirp which I assumed was some sort of resonance.  I may have jumped on the chirping bandwagon assuming that they were talking about the louder than average (to my ears) noise one of my units was making. It will be interesting to see what you think of Fritzs to see (hear) if it is a beating tone or a constant tone.

I guess other smps do makes noises, I did feel the example I sent back (taped one) was louder than most though and could be heard from 2+ meters.

Not sure if this general noise is noticable due to the proximity though, afterall you are chained by the length of your 'cans' lead and so you are limited to how far away you can place the smps, certainly a complainent on 'another forum' was talking of his situation of the green solo in their bedroom. Sat on my sofa listening to records through the green reflex I can confess not to hearing anything.

Is the frequency and amplitude of the noise generated related the voltage/current capacity out?

Yes the green series was a fantastic bargain Clap and was the only way I could have got hold of a Reflex and certainly try the  Solo (a successful gamble) and I hope I haven't come across as a complaining git.

Has the fact it was such a bargain affected peoples perception/acceptance of the smps, have people been more accepting of the whistling than they would be at full price? I suppose my concern would be if a magazine reviewer ended up with one they thought was 'too audible' and passed this comment. Whether this is relevant or not is yet another matter... have you seen an increase in demand after the HiFi World Voyager review? ..... does  good review make a difference. I know you have passed comment on magazines and reviewers before but surely a positive review good?

It would be interesting to see if there are any studies on the affect magazine reviews on sales of products.


Back to Top
Graham Slee View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Retired

Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Location: South Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 16314
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2008 at 9:47pm
"hope I haven't come across as a complaining git."

HugHugHug (more big hugs)...

Don't get me wrong - you don't come across as that.

To be perfectly honest, the whole SM-PS thing ****** me off. OK, it'll save the world about 18 power stations of the size of Ferrybridge in West Yorkshire. IMO carbon emissions and their link to "global warming" are a mere diversion - a conjuring trick to disguise the real purpose which is security of supply (as the Eco Design directive partially admits) - in otherwords it's political, and you and I will foot the bill as we usually do.

I could have designed a range of equipment by now, but for RoHS, WEEE and the "rolling" Eco-design directives.

Why do you think I hate politicians? Hope no one here's one!

They get 40 grand a year plus 160 grand expenses and what do they do for it? Yes! They make sure people like you and me don't get anywhere near what they get!

Anarchy? You're b****y well right!

Hug
That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.104 seconds.