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SS Vs Valves |
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Graham Slee
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Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16314 |
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Topic: SS Vs ValvesPosted: 27 Mar 2009 at 12:50am |
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When the silicon transistor came on the scene in the 60’s there were some nice sounding configurations, but within months rather than years, the temptation for massive gain and bandwidth for the cold-war-effort took over and the miniaturization we now call the op-amp brainwashed just about every SS amp designer.
The valve guys were never brainwashed: the trouble was they got forgotten about and I guess many ended up as supermarket shelf stackers. I hope some have them are benefiting from all this resurgence? I doubt it! I was never brainwashed either! I guess it’s hard to believe of a guy who uses op-amps? But I don’t do it “the cold-war” way. There are two sides in audio: on the one side there are valves – on the other there is the rigid SS discipline. I sit somewhere in the middle – but as it’s human nature to take sides at least it’s nice and quiet on my little “cloud”. And obviously I don’t use valves. Equally I don’t use the rigid SS arrogant approach. I get ridiculed by both sides, but to be really honest, I don’t give a sh1t. I learnt my valve theory before I learnt about transistors. The only thing that stopped me actually using valves was money and space: being from South Yorkshire I was never taught the art of amassing a large wad – we were brought up as pit fodder. However, in 1970’s AV I worked with valve gear: anything from a PA amp, to 16mm sound projectors, and even a 4 colour reprographics stencil scanner (complete with chicken head knobs). And I had to fix them if they broke. I also attended several live band performances on an almost every weekend basis – Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, Roy Harper, Alex Harvey Band, that sort of thing… As far as posh music, well, I used to go along with mum and dad to musicals before I ventured into the wild-world and mixed with the “wrong” sort… I designed quite a lot of my own audio gear in my mid twenties using transistor configurations that today's rigid SS disciples frown upon – in fact I recently did another one called the Novo. Would that be why it won? You see, like valve circuits I use coupling capacitors and single supplies and instead of valves I use groupings of transistors to give the same sort of linearity that valves do, or use op-amps that actually do the biz (there's only about 5 or 6 on the planet and they're not the ones the SS brigade rave about). And I don’t use servo’s if I can help it. The SS brigade dislike my techniques saying I’m all wrong, except the things I do measure up right and even work right in simulation. And the valve guys… Keep smiling, Graham Edited by Graham Slee - 27 Mar 2009 at 12:59am |
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mrarroyo
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Joined: 28 Jul 2008 Location: Miami Beach, FL Status: Offline Points: 1401 |
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Posted: 27 Mar 2009 at 1:03am |
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Graham, I like valves ... and I like SS. They are both ok in my book if the designer and builder knows what he/she is doing. Like anything in life the attention to detail and knowledge of the designer comes through when you hook up a pair of speakers or headphones.
I listen mostly to jazz and I am equally happy w/ an SS amp like the Novo or the Jaycar as I am w/ a hybrid like the MF X-Can V2 (w/ Mike's mods). Now I am on the lookout for an old Fischer or Scott valve amp from the 60's. It will be a pain because I will need a good technician to get it re-capped but I recall they sounded pretty good. Ever heard one?
In closing, if the designer knows the sound is good.
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Miguel
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Analog Kid
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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Posted: 27 Mar 2009 at 2:17am |
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Graham: what is your opinion about hybrid amplifiers that use both transistors and valves? I mean hybrids with both technologies inside the same case. An example is the high-end hybrid preamplifier made by a popular American manufacturer of HiFi valve gear, which uses valves in the gain stage (which they say provides "harmonic opulence" - whatever that means) and transistors in the output stage, which they say provides "...high current capability with ultra-low impedance for optimal matching with any amps and interconnects". I also know of a power amplifier from a Swiss manufacturer which uses valves in the input/gain stage and transistors in the output/buffer stage. Is this kind of design really ideal?
While we are on the topic: do the transistors in a solid-state amplifier also get worn out over time like valves do? Edited by Analog Kid - 27 Mar 2009 at 2:42am |
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Graham Slee
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Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16314 |
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Posted: 27 Mar 2009 at 1:15pm |
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Hi AK,
Last question first: No. But let me qualify that: everything has a lifetime - for example: the plastic bags you get at the supermarket checkout take many generations to decompose. Likewise, a transistor is encapsulated in plastic. As for the "element" (the transistor junction), that is etched in silicon - "written in stone" - and if used within its limits will last nearly as long as stone - whatever that is. The only other "life-threatening" thing is its wires: they will tend to corode before the "stone" withers away - possibly hundreds of years in the right conditions... As humans if we don't understand something we experiment. I see most things as an experiment - hybrid amps included. The property of a valve is its inherent linearity, which doesn't mean all audio valve circuits will be linear by default - it still needs the skill of the design engineer. The valves I'm used to (which mainly covers them all - but a few wierd ones) have voltage supplies in the region 100 - 300 volts DC (the HT rail). When biased into class A in say a preamp, half the rail is across the valve and the other half is across its anode resistor - these items connected in series (there will usually be another resistor in series with its cathode to the negative rail but I'm trying to keep this explanation simple). The output signal is produced by the anode "swinging" a facsimile of the signal that appears on its input (the grid). It is like two pieces of elastic taking it in turns to pull one way then another (in fact, on paper it's up and down) thus producing a sine wave (or in real life a complex musical wave). Because the output of a preamp is in the order of a volt, the two "elastics" hardly move: taking a 100V HT, one has 50 volts of "stretch" and so does the other. 1 in 50 is not perfectly linear and so the distortion is going to be 1 in 50 or 2%. But we have a "tool" called negative feedback which further linearises things and brings down the distortion within acceptable limits. That is what I mean by inherently linear. The transistor isn't as inherently linear because it operates on a much lower supply voltage. Otherwise, for the purpose of this explanation, it works just the same as a valve. The "elastics" are "shorter" so the distortion is higher. And that's why you won't see many single transistor preamps like you see single valve preamps. Good (properly designed) transistor stages use a few transistors taking it "a bit at a time" and using the same "tool" of negative feedback, and in that way can be made as linear as a valve. I will add here (before somebody pulls me up) that I have left out the "non-linear" base-collector relationship simply because most SS designers (me included) know how to linearise that on "auto-pilot"! Eventually, when I get sufficient time I will post some simple circuits (valve and transistor) and explain how they work. The danger is that through not knowing (unfortunately the word for that is ignorance) people can be easily swayed into one belief or another just like the way vigilante groups establish themselves. The two camps will always have their "extremists" or "fundamentalists" who try to coerse their followers into dirtying the opposite camp. Unfortunately that has happened here in high-fidelity circles, and we all waste precious time arguing about it. What we should be doing instead is learning. |
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