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Bradders View Drop Down
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Points: 137 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bradders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2013 at 11:04am
Originally posted by Nuance_Ember Nuance_Ember wrote:

Originally posted by morris_minor morris_minor wrote:

Call me a cynical and grumpy ol' git



I agree. The only way to efficiently sell a product that demonstrates very little real capability is to target the uneducated with "the bullcrap of Satan" and provide a lack of demonstration facilities, to ensure that the consumer remains uneducated.


LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLClapClapClap
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Points: 6197 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morris_minor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2013 at 11:38am
I hope that "applause" isn't for my grumpiness!
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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Points: 1544 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drewan77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2013 at 11:46am
Originally posted by Nuance_Ember Nuance_Ember wrote:

Gah, this is frustrating... After I get all my headphone spending back, I need to make some overall profit so that I can donate a "best" HD540II free-of-charge to the UK loan scheme. Only then will people be able to hear for themselves how much can be achieved with so little... =/


I can offer Ash some support here.... having purchased one of those pairs of HD540II from him

Although they have only been paired with a Bitzie for about 6-7 hours listening, they are extremely pleasing to listen to. Nothing seems missing, nor overblown, very natural sounding, great value for money and beautifully restored by Ash
Older than I once was, younger than I'll be
.............................
Andrew
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msphil View Drop Down
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Points: 386 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote msphil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 12:24am
I would like to ask Ash a question: has he ever listened to a pair of Grado PS1000 headphones that have been well played in? Just because one is happy with ones own choice of headphones (that cost £200 against the £1300 that I payed) it doesn't mean that one can categorically state that they are the best available or that one is the sole possessor of truth. Opinion is only true to the person whose opinion it is! Neither does one's opinion mean that one should criticise some one else's choice. Price alone is not a relevant issue, nor are statistics. Quality and value are different things. I own four pairs of 'quality' headphones. Each one sounded good to me when I had nothihng better to compare them with. Experience and personal taste are the only criteria. Even limited shop comparisons are no good because good headphones take hundreds of hours to be at their best. I am happy that Ash appreciates the headphones he has, just as I would like to think that he is happy that I enjoy mine, even if he thinks that I'm foolish to have spent as much as I did.

The fact is that I am more than happy with my Grado PS1000s. I haven't ever heard better! Opinions are subjective but to me, in terms of the pleasure they give me, they are more than worth the price I paid! All I know is that they bring out things in the music that I hadn't ever imagined were there. They do so in a beautifully balanced and musical way. I don't expect everybody to agree with my choice or opinion. Nor can I categorically state that they are the best headphones available because I haven't listened to every other pair on the market. I would be more than interested in borrowing a pair of Ash's headphones if they are ever put in the loan scheme. With this in mind I believe I have an open mind and would be happy if I found that they are better than the ones that I am using.
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Graham Slee View Drop Down
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Points: 16314 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 8:30am
OK this is nothing to do with headphones but me and the Missus had a disco evening - just the two of us - but none of the old 45s sounded right, so I dug out the ancient Sonotone 9TA and its (GS) head amp, and I played nothing but old scratched, mucky and abused 45s for 2 - 3 hours. Didn't notice any scratches - great sound - as good as the modern CD compilations but more vibrant. More than that it was like having a time travel machine back to the 70s!

The point is it's whatever does the job - what does great music for you. The Sonotone 9TA would not compare all that well with a good magnetic playing an LP, but did the job on those 45s.

Sometimes best can mean all sorts of things - and I never read one review in all my life for a Sonotone 9TA piezo-ceramic phono pick-up!
That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Ash View Drop Down
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Points: 4360 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 9:55am
Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

I would like to ask Ash a question: has he ever listened to a pair of Grado PS1000 headphones that have been well played in?


No, I have not listened to any Grado headphones. I have only used ATH-M50, HD600, AKG K550, ER-4S, HD250I, HD250II, HD540I, HD540II and that's pretty much it, yes. I've briefly heard several other headphones in HMV stores such as Sennheiser Momentum and Beats By Dr Dre.

Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

Just because one is happy with ones own choice of headphones (that cost £200 against the £1300 that I payed) it doesn't mean that one can categorically state that they are the best available or that one is the sole possessor of truth.


I haven't said that my headphone choices are the best because I cannot verify this absolutely. I think absolute truth is only something that we can converge on, not actually reach. With such a lack of personal experience, I'm only standing on the shoulders of giants.

Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

Opinion is only true to the person whose opinion it is!


I agree.

Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

Neither does one's opinion mean that one should criticise some one else's choice.


I was trying to advise more than criticise but sometimes you can't do the former without the latter.

Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

nor are statistics.


I don't believe in statistics; it is often grossly skewed compared to the real world. Statistics is only a model, one that the real world can deviate from.

Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

Quality and value are different things.


I agree.

Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

Experience and personal taste are the only criteria.


I agree.

Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

Even limited shop comparisons are no good because good headphones take hundreds of hours to be at their best.


Unfortunately, yes, you're also correct here. They can take hundreds of hours. Some reach mechanical optimum sooner than others.

Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

I would like to think that he is happy that I enjoy mine


I sure hope you are! Smile

Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

even if he thinks that I'm foolish to have spent as much as I did.


No, not foolish but I simply feel that the "high-end" misleads enthusiasts into spending more than they need to. I don't like this, mainly because I come from a social background where money should be valued and only spent wisely.

Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

they bring out things in the music that I hadn't ever imagined were there. They do so in a beautifully balanced and musical way.


Good, I'm relieved that they do.

Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

I don't expect everybody to agree with my choice or opinion. Nor can I categorically state that they are the best headphones available because I haven't listened to every other pair on the market.


Neither of us has announced either of our headphones to be the absolute best. Neither of us have listened to all the offerings on the market.

Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

I would be more than interested in borrowing a pair of Ash's headphones if they are ever put in the loan scheme.


I need a few more weeks of buying and selling then I want to get a HD540II circulating round to all the UK GSP regulars here, especially those with Solos and/OR Bitzies.

Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

With this in mind I believe I have an open mind and would be happy if I found that they are better than the ones that I am using.


Open mind is good. I try to keep an open mind as well. Would you really be happy if you found my choice to be an improvement?
We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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msphil View Drop Down
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Points: 386 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote msphil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 1:33pm
Hi Ash,

I'm glad that we agree on so much. I only put in my tuppence worth because I felt it you were coming over a bit strong by telling people that they are wasting their money by buying 'high-end 'headphones such as the top of the range Grado's. It is undoubtedly true that some high-end hi-fi gear does not live up to its price tag, however, this is not always the case! Sometimes top end hi-fi gear (such as Grado) have  good reputation for a very good reason, and it would be wrong to discourage others from enjoying their benefits if they want, and can afford to do so.

I too came from a background where value for money was important. I was brought up in the north-east of England at a time of post-war austerity. I just happened to enjoy music which is why the first thing I ever bought when I originally started work was a hi-fi system. My uncle was a professional saxophonist and clarinettist, my sister married a well-known jazz performer's son and in my youth I made money from playing pop music, and later folk in the 60s and 70s folk revival. I am only mentioning this to show you that I do care about the quality of sound that can be produced. Hi-fi sound reproduction is, or can be, a learning process. So yes, I would be pleased to have found that your choice was an improvement! I hope you that you would equally be pleased to discover, as I did, that not all high-end hi-fi is a waste of money.

My whole bedroom head phone system which includes a squeezebox touch, the Solo ULDE and a pair of Grado PS1000 cost me just over £2000. I regard this as excellent value! I am looking forward to trying out the Majestic DAC to see if this will improve my system further.
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