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Room Treatment
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Ash View Drop Down
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Points: 4360 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 8:27am
Yes, I have read through some of the sections on this website, especially the open baffle bits. It is a useful source of reading. Speaker design and setup will be more challenging than my former HD540 customization, which was fairly straightforward but time consuming.

I will set up a 12p and 12pw adjacent on a cardboard open baffle as I am curious about the resulting sound.
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McHolmeM View Drop Down
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Points: 209 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McHolmeM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 8:35am
Originally posted by DaveG DaveG wrote:

Just moving my speakers a foot or so can completely change the soundstage. 


I can also vouch for this. Having now bought a pair of PMC twenty.23 floor standers I spent last Saturday moving around the right speaker to optimise the overall presentation. Just small incremental changes can very much alter the soundstage; this was all done in conjuction with various test tracks on an IsoTek set-up disc given away free with a hi-fi magazine a few years back. 
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Ash View Drop Down
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Points: 4360 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 11:44am
A timber box enclosure, regardless of how much stuffing you pack inside it, will absorb energy from the air vibrations that leave the driver from inside the box and from the air pressure changes. The enclosure will be able to absorb and store this mechanical energy for a certain amount of time depending on its mass/resonance character before re-emission. Newton's third law of motion regarding equal and opposite forces is applicable to the behaviour of the driver diaphragm and the pressure differences it generates. Some of the waves are re-emitted inside the enclosure, leading to constructive/destructive wave interference as well as being able to affect how the driver itself moves and vibrates. Internal vibrations will also spread out through the entire enclosure material and be emitted across all of the outer surface faces as the energy is dissipated. So if you have a box speaker right against a back wall, the whole rear face of the enclosure will be putting kinetic energy almost directly into the back wall, which results in more resonance and reflections on an even larger fascia which can then be emitted and re-emitted around the listening room. What a mess this will be in a small room with large heavy enclosures coupled to large drivers. Even smaller drivers in smaller enclosures would be bad enough.

I prefer to give more attention to the actual driver/s, which should be able to reproduce most of the frequencies unassisted by a box IMO. Obviously they need some help down in the low frequencies but I'm not so sure about using timbers like MDF or even denser alternatives as I envisage these as storing and re-emitting more vibrational energy due to more mass. Depends on the room size and characteristics though.

You might laugh but I think good quality drivers mounted just on/in standard cardboard driven from Graham Slee Proprius amps sound amazing. I want to experiment with multi-layer cardboard as a baffle material as it doesn't store/radiate mechanical energy like thick timber, instead simply stopping driver pressure "wrap-around". This is just my taste though, with K1000 as listening reference.
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DaveG View Drop Down
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Points: 481 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 1:32pm
Well there are as many speaker designs as there are speaker manufacturers. Sealed box, front or rear ported, transmission line, horn loaded, open baffle.. high mass cabinets, low mass.. the list is endless. And then there are electrostatics. I believe open baffle used to be a lot more commonplace when hi-fi was more hobbyist & people were building their own kit (50's-60's??) and that one of the perceived issues was rear radiation vs forward radiation arriving at the listening position at different times. One solution was to make the baffle ever larger then give it little return wings which eventually lead to the sealed box or infinite baffle. Can't say I've ever heard a speaker like this.. it might be interesting though. I think whichever solution is implemented, each type of design comes with it's own strengths and weaknesses, and each has their proponents, but the best designs of whatever type manage to somehow overcome most of the pitfalls or at least come up up with a relatively benign compromise. Depends which set of compromises suits the listener.

My current speakers are small, and rear reflex ported. I auditioned them against a few others in store & then took them home for a demo in my room. If you can swing it with the dealer I'd always recommend this, as per a previous post, what sounds great in the demo room always changes when you get them home. I keep mine well clear of the back wall (exactly 1250mm in fact). Getting too close results in loose, murky bass, which I cannot stand. They actually sound pretty good to me but I like tweaking of this sort and I hope the bass traps I've got on order will also tidy things up a bit further. Whatever speakers you use you will have to deal with room reflections, more so in a smallish room. Side and rear walls are more of a problem for me and require a bit more juggling. I can only get my speakers about 800mm from the side walls.  Will be an interesting weekend (for me at least Wink)


Edited by DaveG - 12 Apr 2016 at 3:38pm
Dave

Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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Paul H View Drop Down
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Points: 121 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 7:09pm
I would strongly recommend having a look at Barry Diament's guide to room set up. He should know a thing or two: his resume of mastering credits is astounding. I've had the honour of receiving advice directly from him and everything I've tried has brought improvements. Visit http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/monitoring.htm
ProJect 1Xpression Carbon UKX w/ Ortofon 2M Black; Arcam Alpha 7 CD player; Graham Slee Revelation M pre; Denon PMA 355UK amp; Epos K1 speakers; Blue Jeans LC-1 interconnects. Room: 2.9m x 3.1m.
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DaveG View Drop Down
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Points: 481 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 7:32pm
Good article Paul. Plenty to get your teeth into & digest. I was also interested in the speaker placement part as I used the Cardas method described to position my speakers initially & then tweaked it a bit. I think I might try his recommended positioning. I like things like that - they cost nothing but a little time & may yield real benefits.
Dave

Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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Richardl60 View Drop Down
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Points: 1475 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richardl60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 7:48pm
As you say Dave all speakers are compromised in some way and depends on what suits your room, ears, other equipment and pocket.

Would guess cardboard will compromise rigidity.   
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