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RIP Denon AH-D7000...
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Ash View Drop Down
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Points: 4360 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2023 at 12:41pm
The HD650 were never very good. I never understood why they were so highly recommended. People were even endorsing them for professional/studio use... Perhaps with parametric EQ, they could be decent but the default response was not even remotely high fidelity. The very best headphones represent all the frequencies at the correct relative levels and provide the engagement and enjoyment that music is intended to do.

Thanks to Mark Audio speaker drivers and Graham's Proprius, speaker audio is much better bang-for-buck than modern summit-fi headphones. Headphones are spatially restricted on stereo recordings because the sound sources are not in front of the face so are only heard by individual ears whereas speaker drivers can be placed at any distance and angle. The difference in depth with binaural recordings (intended for headphones) played on close proximity full range drivers is substantial. I encourage others to experiment with it.
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Ash View Drop Down
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Points: 4360 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2023 at 12:48pm
But yes, if you absolutely need closed-back headphones, then just pick what you like.

My objective is totally different; whatever sounds the best.
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Lucabeer View Drop Down
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Points: 719 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lucabeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2023 at 4:56pm
Denon AH-D7200 arrived today!

Still to be broken in, of course... but first impressions are excellent. Much more sensitive than the previous 7000, I have to turn down the volume knob on the Solo a quarter turn compared to my previous listening habit to reach the same sound pressure.

Bass extensions seems even deeper, but much more controlled and less boomy. They go down with frequencies, but with less resonance. Tighter. The bass is awesome, but it doesn't bleed on the other frequencies.

Overall, they seem smoother in the high registers too: less emphasis on surface noise of my records.

Less V-shaped than the 7000, in other words, though retaining the luscious quality and the ability to punch with very deep beats. Same house sound, but more polite and refined.




Edited by Lucabeer - 27 Apr 2023 at 5:19pm
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Points: 1751 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CageyH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2023 at 7:27pm
Originally posted by Ash Ash wrote:

The HD650 were never very good. I never understood why they were so highly recommended. People were even endorsing them for professional/studio use... Perhaps with parametric EQ, they could be decent but the default response was not even remotely high fidelity. The very best headphones represent all the frequencies at the correct relative levels and provide the engagement and enjoyment that music is intended to do.

Thanks to Mark Audio speaker drivers and Graham's Proprius, speaker audio is much better bang-for-buck than modern summit-fi headphones. Headphones are spatially restricted on stereo recordings because the sound sources are not in front of the face so are only heard by individual ears whereas speaker drivers can be placed at any distance and angle. The difference in depth with binaural recordings (intended for headphones) played on close proximity full range drivers is substantial. I encourage others to experiment with it.

Have you looked at the 10P frequency response?
It is not what I would call "HiFi".




Edited by CageyH - 27 Apr 2023 at 7:31pm
Kevin
European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France.
Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Fatmangolf View Drop Down
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Points: 9695 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2023 at 7:40pm
It is pretty flat for a single driver. The thd and imd would be helpful.
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Ash View Drop Down
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Points: 4360 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2023 at 8:30pm
So the 10P response from 80Hz-20kHz is basically +/- 5dB SPL on-axis and that's at about 90dB at perhaps 1m distance? So for a cardboard nearfield open baffle, the listening volume will be quite a bit lower so response will likely be even flatter. So before any kind of EQ is applied, I consider that to be a pretty neutral response for a speaker. 

During listening comparisons, I prefer its tonality to the 11MS; well to all of the Mark Audio metal drivers actually. It greatly resembles the sound balance I expect from a headphone. MySphere is flat +/- 3dB so it's not too far off. I prefer metal to paper as a cone material but their responses tend to feature lifts in the upper bass for baffle step correction and in the treble for better off-axis levels. 10P has a very shallow cone profile too for wider dispersion. 

I have recently acquired a pair of CHP-90 which are much cheaper and are more bass capable but with a less shallow cone (it is more of a woofer in terms of bass loads). I need to compare it against the 10P. The pair of CHP-90 cost £130 and should at least match the 10P in performance. I consider that to be incredible value for money and makes headphone audio seem completely overpriced if you already have a pair of Proprius.


Edited by Ash - 27 Apr 2023 at 8:37pm
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Lucabeer View Drop Down
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Points: 719 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucabeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 11:18am
One thing is sure about the 7200: vocal are drier, and "narrower". Meaning, that they sound very precisely nailed to the center of the stereo image, and very forward.

The 7000 had more coloration on vocals, they sounded "fatter" and spread "wider". Probably these new headphones are more faithful and precise... but it's taking some time to get used.
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