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Just how high-resolution is vinyl?

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    Posted: 06 Sep 2022 at 3:49am
I just moved things around in my system a little bit. Nothing major, shortening lengths, making sure everything's tight, improving shielding, adding a... um... top of the heap isolation pad... Cool I'm about to give my reflex C loaner back and I wanted to make sure I was hearing all I could out of it. My system is pretty well set up for detail retrieval. I always erred on the side of resolution because I was otherwise using high-res digital sources. Current setup is: LOMC p-mount, a stock Technics 310MC, linear TT, Technics SL-6 (the ugly one). Then Reflex C, 6F8G buffer (this is my volume control), single-ended amp, full range drivers. There's also two sealed passive subs with their own amps.

I was listening to Yo-Yo Ma's most recent version of the Bach suites when I started to hear these weird little 'toks.' If you know the sound of a linear tracker trying to jag when it shouldn't, that's sort of what it sounded like. It wasn't that. It was Yo-Yo Ma's fingertips moving up and down the fingerboard. The sound was woody and musical. You could clearly infer the movement of his hand. Then he starts whistling. On the G Suite. First volume, A-side. This is my heaviest rotation album, I have never heard any of this before. 

So, couple questions...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2022 at 8:25am
I guess you could use photography as an analogy.

The 35mm camera came into being to take the stills for movie promotion shots using the same filmstock as used in the moving picture cameras.

The negative is small and at the same time it contains grains of silver, and on low ASA film those grains are finer, and was used for high definition images.

Now, if you look at a large photographic print, expertly done, the detail can be awesome.

And then you look at the chemical processes involved and you think, that's impossible!

The professional photographer would crack open the cassette in the dark, and load the film onto the spiral, and get it into the tank, then put the light on, and continue to process the film.

It's a multi stage chemical process dependent on time and temperature, and then at last, the film emerges and hung to dry. Just think of that - all those chemicals and the possibility of pollutants getting in there - it could really mess up those grains on that tiny negative.

But then it goes through the enlarger, and the photographer selects a trim to take out unwanted side images and blows it up on the easel to produce a glossy large enough for a centrefold. The photographic paper goes through a similar chemical process, and then it goes to retouching - all this came before photoshop!

Then it goes to the printer's dot screen studio, and three colour separation plus black overprinter masks are produced, and developed by chemical process.

It then goes to the print run, and then you buy the glossy and marvel at the resolution - the detail.

Yeah, but that stopped happening years ago, and it's all digital now, and there's digital manipulation, and all that.

Likewise, the laquer is cut and it goes through a chemical process to produce stampers and if there ain't any pollution, the stamper is perfect, and with virgin vinyl, the groove is an exact replica. It didn't take as many stages as that centrefold or cover photo!

OK, the master tape was de-essed down to a 7.5 ips mastering tape, and the RIAA time constants applied.

Yes, you get tape hiss and print through, but a good proportion of the master tape is still there.

And now we have DDA which loses less information.

But a good old 70s pressing is AAA, and the dynamic range is only 72dB (12 bit), with 14dB of that dependant on the phono stage.

While everybody swoons at the 120dB dynamic range of computer files.

But you hear such incredible detail from a "noisy" format - what a thing of wonder.

I think it a good idea to learn from Chris Montgomery https://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml

That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlueMountain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2022 at 12:37pm
Terrific answer, thank you. I remember 35mm, and was happy to see some younger people using it on a walk the other day.  Of course my father was a large-format photographer, plates the size of my hand, out in a field with a black cloth over his head. No truck with this modern stuff! This though, I think he would have appreciated. 

Seriously, really beautiful work. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlueMountain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2022 at 7:24pm
Is it allowed to recommend other gear here btw? I'm really impressed with my system right now and I'd like to give due credit to the guy who built my speakers, but obviously not if it would be considered shilling. Full disclosure: though he's not a close personal friend, we've had occasional friendly talks about audio since I called up the company looking for a manual a few years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2022 at 7:54pm
Yes but not products in direct competition with HFC so speakers are okay I think.
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lfc jon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2022 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

Yes but not products in direct competition with HFC so speakers are okay I think.

Why would you want to big up other's (not having a go) I like my Phono, Headphone amp and cables all GS stuff, Even my mate is looking at GS headphone amp after listening to mine through his system, good news for him his wife like's the idea of him having a headphone amp.
Reflex M, Solo (both with PSU-1) CuSat50, Lautus, Spatia & Spatia links cables. Ortofon Bronze.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlueMountain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2022 at 8:43pm
Ah, great. The speakers are my (or rather my wife's) Blumenstein Orcas. I bought them used because the cabinets were pretty. They were literally my first hi-fi purchase (I had to ask if they were the kind that needs an amplifier) but every time I level up my understanding of audio I gain more appreciation for just what a brilliant implementation of the 3" Fostex driver it is. The guy who designs and builds them is a real throwback - just thinking about the physics and then chasing down the interesting ideas with experimentation. His website has some really interesting ideas on it. Obviously, they beautifully handled the very subtle layer of information described above. So, hat tip Clark. Highly recommended.
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