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Recommended source for headphone rig?

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Francisco View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Francisco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2010 at 5:51pm

TG

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences. I think I have NEVER found anyone in the internet doing an earnest A to B test of an modded vs standard player.
 
We have the same player, listen to the same CD's, Same cans and almost the same head phone amp!
 
I talked to a certified modder (does work for tenlabs) and would get back to him on the clock mods/discrete op amps. The investment is not exactly cheap and I can get an CD-10 for the same money so its still difficult.
 
So please continue to provide some insights on the run-in modded CD 52 MKII SE as this might tip the scales Thumbs%20Up
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tg [RIP] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2010 at 8:46am

Thanks Francisco,

since you are looking to improve your source, one thing I neglected to mention, that Han (Cyreg) will endorse, on the modded player, I have checked the input polarity and marked the figure of 8 power connector (having checked the lead for input polarity) to ensure correct input polarity from the mains.  I believe it is trivial for you to reverse your input socket connectors and try this for yourself.

Moreover, since my current project is the DAC I mentioned earlier and it has now around 6 - 700 hrs on it, I am eager to start modding it.

I thought I would first test it against the unmodded player analogue out and also against the modded player digital out.

The Caiman offers two coaxial inputs and I have two identical relatively inexpensive Cambridge Audio digital I/Cs of quite good quality to provide a neutral reference point.

Running the two digital outputs into the DAC allows immediate switching between the two and the Solo allowing switching between the analogue out of the unmodded player and the DAC.

This should allow to hear any effect from the clock upgrade as distinct from the combination of clock and discrete opamps.  No other part of the digital circuitry has been modded.

I am continuing to run the same CD in parallel on repeat and just pickup up the cans now and then for a listen and compare for 15 or 20 minutes at a time to reduce listening burnout which I have experienced in the past when too obsessively listening for differences.  Wacko

Difference between the digital out is very subtle and not sure I would pick it blind, but it seems of the character that one would expect from a reduction in "jitter" - an improved clarity and ease, less veiled, more expansive and less harsh.

Changing the digital I/C for a heavy Valab silver job on the modded player merely emphasised this difference, making it somehow larger lusher, richer and more "full" - both of music and of silence and space behind the music.

I have often found with turntable mods that many minor ones seem to have little impact and then suddenly one will make all the others "gel".

I rather think the clock upgrade is in the class of "foundation" tweaks, allowing others to work better.  I may well fit a digital pulse transformer to the digital out now since I have a number of them to spare (had to buy a minimum of 10 when I wanted one for my Monica2)

Two questions are answered from today's session:

Does the clock upgrade make a noticeable difference?

Yes, but very subtle.

Does the Caiman DAC (stock) improve on the analogue out of the stock player?

Yes, definitely, in most of the ways you describe the upgrade to the UL, less congested, huge soundstage - this recording is good for getting a sense of the size of the venue.

Yet to be answered, does the Caiman improve on the modded player eg is stock player plus stock Caiman a better option than modding the player and who turned my Solo into a UL and my K701 into bass monsters.

Most of the conclusions above arrived at by simply noticing which I was spending the most time listening to and getting lost in the music then trying to discern the reason for that.

I spent much too long last night listening to my modded player and marvelling at why I have never heard it sound like that before.

Still not sure on that.



Edited by tg - 19 Jun 2010 at 8:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tg [RIP] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 6:09am

Just in case you thought I had forgotten about this, an update.

Firstly, the unmodded Caiman is no longer available for comparison, it is in the recovery ward following surgery.

Secondly, it should be noted that my implementation of the reclock could be improved upon by providing the clock with its own power supply.  That is on the maybe one day list.

Now, not entirely unexpectedly, the stock player has improved markedly for being powered on and playing for over 10 days now and what, largely, we are comparing here, are the stock opamps and the Burson discrete modules.

Before moving on, to my remembrance, the difference between the Caiman and the Burson modded player, were mainly of presentation with the Caiman being more forward and somewhat lusher sounding (probably the LM4562 opamps in it), the modded player sounding more neutral and matter of fact, perhaps a little deeper in soundstaging.

The comparison drawing much closer, I was not sure I was not hearing differences introduced by the cables not being identical, so an amount of cable swapping followed between players and a number of different cables were tried on both players to ascertain their effect.

Through all this I continued using the same CD and have not expanded the types of music or other permutations of gear, in order to provide a reference that Francisco might duplicate.

I finally found a pair of identical cables, Blue Jeans LC1 75cm, but being unsure of their usage status (was not that keen on their sound, so not much used I think).

I will allow them to run for a week to loosen up somewhat.

Their price is more consistent with what might sensibly be used with this player (the VDH are worth more than the player).

The main difference I have identified, which remained consistent across cable changes, is that the modded player has more "gravitas", seeming to give a more "weighty" rendition with improved nuance in the bass, possibly more bass extension, a bigger soundstage and a real ability to convey the emotion (enhanced by the VDH First Ultimate I felt) there is an almost primeval sense of foreboding to the bass in Division Bell and a melancholy to some of the guitar playing.  Vocals also seem to carry more weight and reality whilst not being so forward.

Will see how the Blue Jeans wear and follow on.  

There are a couple of other things I want to check as well.

Conclusion and recommendation at this time.

The mods have made a significant difference for me, BUT, I did them myself and at a time when the parts were less expensive than now.

The cost of modding would not be recouped in the event of resale.

At a comparable price I would probably choose the CD10 - if it does not do the business you can pretty certainly get your money back. 

PS -  FWIW the best cable on the stock player seemed to be the VDH First Ultimate.



Edited by tg - 28 Jun 2010 at 8:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tg [RIP] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 3:48am

Time to round off this saga in case anybody has been following:  Hug

Firstly, another 200 hrs of playtime has continued to improve the stock player, it has also brought the LC1 to the stage where, in this combination, with these headphones, I could live with them.

I have seen someone else comment that a CD94 improved considerably after 14 days of continuous "on time".
It has also been noted with other equipment, phono stages and headphone amps (SS) that many will not sound at their peak until powered on for some considerable time, even when thoroughly "burned in", not only by myself but a number of different people at different times have made similar observations.
All of which will make me rather cautious of the validity of "one day shootouts" of a number of similar items of equipment - it would seem probable that many of the items being compared may well not be giving of their best.
Such results, should, IMO, be considered indicative rather than conclusive.

Final conclusion from this lengthy comparison being that the upgraded clock and opamps have given improved resolution of micro detail and microdynamics, giving the effect of a "weightier" presentation and allowing a greater ability to hear "into" the mix.
They also seem to give a slightly less romantic and more matter of fact rendition (perhaps one might call this "neutral") while at the same time having a seeming greater ability to convey the emotion.

A couple of inexpensive tweaks that seemed to improve clarity and definition for both players, were placing foculpods (set of 4 can be bought for as little as GBP 12.50) under the player and some weight on top.
Isolating the Solo by sitting it on about 1cm of folded bubble wrap and placing some weight (an old hard drive of about 500 gm weight) on top.
The effects were subtle but I felt them an improvement, will not cost much to try.


Edited by tg - 07 Jul 2010 at 3:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 8:42am
Originally posted by tg tg wrote:

Time to round off this saga in case anybody has been following:  Hug




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Francisco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 9:19pm
thanx for that write up!
 
There is still some life in the old players yetWink
 
In the end I went for a new SACD player which cost the same as an old player plus upgrades.
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