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Weighty?
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BAK View Drop Down
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Points: 1831 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2025 at 5:03pm
All turntables have a platter that rides on a spindle. The spindle will have a thrust washer it rides on to carry the weight of the platter. This thrust washer is an integral part of the bearing mechanism and aids in reducing the wow-and-flutter specification.
 BUT, not all turntables have a retainer (or UP thrust stop) to keep the spindle from being pulled UP and out.
 If the spindle can be pulled out, a record clamp MAY compromise the wow-and-flutter specification.
  See my diagram below...



Edited by BAK - 08 Feb 2025 at 5:28pm
Bruce
AT-14SA, Pickering XV-15, Hana EL, Technics SL-1600MK2, Lautus, Majestic DAC, Technics SH-8055 spectrum analyzer, Eminence Beta8A custom cabs; Proprius & Reflex M or C, Enjoy Life your way!
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Points: 2139 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackinBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2025 at 9:09am
Sorry Bruce, but that diagram seems to ignore the mechanical coupling between the platter and spindle, without which the platter would just slide down the spindle. The majority of turntables have either a step, circlip or taper on which the platter rests or a solid interference fit or glued joint between the platter and spindle.  Accordingly the clamping force is resisted by the platter/spindle connection, not the bearing assembly, which remains stable.
There are possible exceptions such as a maglev platter suspension.

I don't normally use a record clamp, fortunately I don't have any significantly warped records, lucky I guess.

Ian
Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.
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Points: 9695 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2025 at 10:58am
I use record clamps on both the turntables currently running in my system.

My SL-7 has one built in and it helps with minor warps.

My Gorbe has the dished Orbe platter so the Michell clamp ensures good contact with the record and is quite light. It is a very good design provided the spindle is long enough.

I also have an SL-DL1 which wasn't supplied with a clamp but I use a modified Michell clamp if the record isn't sitting flat on the platter. My SL1210 MK2 has an aluminium mat which is slightly dished and generally fine but I do use a weight on it which tightens the sound, or deadens it depending on the listener's preferences.
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Points: 2139 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackinBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2025 at 11:23am
Perhaps it's time I tried a clamp or weight. My Garrard 401 with cork platter mat might be better suited to a weight as the spindle might not be long enough for a clamp to grip. My other TT with Acrylic platter has a long spindle to allow ues of a clamp. Both have "label" and edge recesses to allow the vinyl to lay flat and make good contact
As Chris observes extra weight might not be a good thing, though the Garrards industrial size bearing probably wouldn't mind!
Think I might investigate a clamp.
Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.
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BAK View Drop Down
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Points: 1831 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2025 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by BackinBlack BackinBlack wrote:

Sorry Bruce, but that diagram seems to ignore the mechanical coupling between the platter and spindle, without which the platter would just slide down the spindle. The majority of turntables have either a step, circlip or taper on which the platter rests or a solid interference fit or glued joint between the platter and spindle.  Accordingly the clamping force is resisted by the platter/spindle connection, not the bearing assembly, which remains stable.
There are possible exceptions such as a maglev platter suspension.

I don't normally use a record clamp, fortunately I don't have any significantly warped records, lucky I guess.

Ian
Thank you Ian, I thought you would chime in.
 Ian is correct...
"The majority of turntables have either a step, circlip or taper on which the platter rests or a solid interference fit or glued joint between the platter and spindle."
 "Accordingly the clamping force is resisted by the platter/spindle connection, not the bearing assembly, which remains stable."

 But there are TT I have seen 'on the bench' for repair that have no platter/spindle connection and the spindle does just pull out. Those TT are generally older or lower grade. My diagram is to share experience of the fact that pulling too much on the spindle may compromise the wow-and-flutter spec.
 
 I do use a plastic record clamp on my Technics TT  with no adverse results. It is very light weight.
I have used record weights over the spindle and they do help some with warps too.


Edited by BAK - 09 Feb 2025 at 2:33pm
Bruce
AT-14SA, Pickering XV-15, Hana EL, Technics SL-1600MK2, Lautus, Majestic DAC, Technics SH-8055 spectrum analyzer, Eminence Beta8A custom cabs; Proprius & Reflex M or C, Enjoy Life your way!
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Points: 4353 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lfc jon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2025 at 2:45pm
I use a weight on my TT. It was designed for it. It maybe my ears as I'm not far off 60 but I didn't hear that much difference to the sound. Would I have bought it if I knew what I know now, probably not.
Reflex M, Solo (both with PSU-1) CuSat50, Lautus, Spatia & Spatia links cables. Ortofon Bronze.
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Points: 1778 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patientot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2025 at 3:09pm
The main reason I use a spindle clamp is because I use a mat that is slightly concave by design and also designed to work with a weight or clamp. The idea with this system is to clamp the record as firmly to the mat as possible (within reason) and flatten out mild dish warps.

Not all TTs are compatible with weights and clamps. Know your TT and what the manufacturer recommends, or does NOT recommend.

I use the Michell "R" version because my spindle length is short with the 5mm mat I use. Depending on your spindle and the mat thickness you may be able to get away with a standard Michell.

I have a heavy machined aluminum weight that I used for awhile but stopped using a few years back because the Michell clamp works better IMHO.


SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM610 MONO, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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