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Garrard 401 and GS Accession MC

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TheScorpionsTale View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheScorpionsTale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2022 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by Chris Firth Chris Firth wrote:

I have an early one here, which just has the wire loop.
It was bought brand new by the gentleman who passed it on to me.
Mine is a fixed headshell version, and it works best with carts at the higher end of the compliance range.

The removable headshell version is better suited to medium compliance carts, but with a touch of mass loading at the headshell end play nice with lower compliance carts.


Following on from what Chris has said, I wouldn't rush to change the SME arm, but you could change the headshell. I've never used the SME S2-R ('Swiss cheese') headshell supplied with my M2 9R arm - I'm assuming that's the one you have - I use a Jelco one which raises the effective mass by about 5gms.

You could take a look at the tools section of Vinyl Engine:
(Sorry if the link doesn't work directly, others I've inserted haven't, just paste into your browser instead.)
Graham

SL1200 II with SME M2-9R and various carts / Revelation M with PSU-1 / Cyrus amp, CD and streamer / Kralk Audio BC30-3 Floorstanders / Bitzie and Lautus USB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2022 at 6:52pm
I agree with Graham.
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ClevedonGinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2022 at 7:05pm
Brilliant! Much appreciated 😁👍
Keep an Open Mind
GS Accession MC Silver
McIntosh C52 preamp McIntosh MC152 power
Technics SL1100 TT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patientot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2022 at 2:46pm
One of the confusing things about the Denon 301mk2 is that the compliance is stated in a Japanese style specification. These Japanese 100Hz dynamic compliance specs are basically worthless for the online calculators and formulas, because they don't mean the same thing as Western compliance specs. They basically refer to tracking a 100Hz test tone at a specific VTF.

These Japanese specs will give wrong info when used with traditional compliance calculators and formulas. You cannot accurately convert them either. The only way to know the Western compliance is to have it lab tested, or by measuring the actual low frequency resonance with software on a tonearm of known effective mass and roughly calculating backwards.

One big clue though, the nominal suggested VTF is 1.4g, which is pretty light by today's standards. This is not a stiff suspension MC cartridge like the Denon 103 or many others. The suspension should be fairly compliant and it should be a fine match for a lighter arm. I wouldn't be trying to make the arm heavier if it were me. A heavy arm for this cartridge shouldn't be necessary at all.

As for the Accession MC, it should work fine with the cartridge. Denon suggests a loading of 100 ohms or more.


Edited by patientot - 02 Nov 2022 at 2:52pm
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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TheScorpionsTale View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheScorpionsTale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2022 at 4:00pm
This question has intrigued me too, David. I've spent part of the afternoon playing with the calculator on Vinyl Engine. This is where it got me:

Assuming:
the SME 3009 Series II is that, and not the SME 3009 Series II S2 Improved, it's effective mass is 12.5gms according to the Vinyl Engine Database. ClevedonGinger, the SME manual should confirm both this and the model, if it has found its way to you with the arm;
the Denon 301 MK2 has, according to the same database, a mass of 4.7gms; it may be a little more depending on the fixings employed;
say the Denon's dynamic compliance, which is quoted by the Japanese method to be 13, works out very roughly to 23 at 10Hz (based on the crude rule of thumb of x1.75 to 2.00), but may be a little higher than that;

then the resonant frequency should be about 7-8Hz, perhaps in reality 7Hz, but very much on the cusp of the 'preferred' 8-11Hz range, and will probably be fine.

If the arm is actually the 'S2 Improved' model, it's apparently lighter, with an effective mass of only 9.5gms, and should be better.

So, ClevedonGinger, I'd suggest (and I think David is suggesting) before shelling out (apologies for the pun) on another headshell, give the Denon a try, and see how it sounds. I'm sure the Accession is already a winner, and it seems a shame to be considering ditching a great SME arm, which you can't buy as a new standalone item any longer, SME now insist you buy the turntable to go with it! Please post an update when you can.

Graham

SL1200 II with SME M2-9R and various carts / Revelation M with PSU-1 / Cyrus amp, CD and streamer / Kralk Audio BC30-3 Floorstanders / Bitzie and Lautus USB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patientot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2022 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by TheScorpionsTale TheScorpionsTale wrote:


say the Denon's dynamic compliance, which is quoted by the Japanese method to be 13, works out very roughly to 23 at 10Hz (based on the crude rule of thumb of x1.75 to 2.00), but may be a little higher than that;



I'm not a fan of that multiplier method because it frequently gives bad results. Sometimes the results are kinda sorta close which leads people to keep using it. I never use it anymore though. That said I wouldn't be surprised if the Western dynamic compliance is 23 or even higher based on the 1.4g tracking force and the static compliance numbers. We would need a test like I described to be sure.

If OP can provide a 1 minute recording of music from the Accession to a computer soundcard or audio interface as a WAV file, then we can look at the low frequency resonances in software. This is not as good as a lab test, but better than calculators, especially with Japanese compliance specs.

At any rate, practically speaking, the cart should work fine on an arm from 9.5g to 12.5g effective mass, though with a heavier arm and/or headshell the resonance may dip to the lower portion of what many people consider "acceptable". If there are no issues with the cartridge performance (excessive bass bloat, bass feedback, cartridge vibrating too much and "dancing", tracking problems, etc.) then it isn't really an issue in practical use.
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ClevedonGinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2022 at 5:36pm
So many thanks for all the brilliant replies- even if some are over my head 😂 I will take the advice and try the 301 and see how it sounds, nothing to lose I suppose 🤞 this all part of the fun with our hobby! 

Much appreciated,

Lloyd 
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GS Accession MC Silver
McIntosh C52 preamp McIntosh MC152 power
Technics SL1100 TT
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