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Please, some advice!

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Lucabeer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 May 2009 at 6:31pm
OK, first some background...

My father has a HUGE collection of vinyls. More than 500, at least. Some classical, and lots of jazz (Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Louis Armstrong, Frank Sinatra, Django Rheinhardt, and so many others).

Sadly, being very old and ill (88 this year), he hasn't touched these records in the past 5 years. I like many of these records, too, and I would love to "keep them alive".

I had a Pioneer turntable, but it recently broke. My father still has a Philips integrated stereo system (turntable, cassette and amplifier) but it's very old and certainly not Hi-Fi.

So, I might be tempted to build a new system from the scratch. Nothing esoteric or too expensive, but I can stand the expense needed to build a good equipment.

First problem: most records are 33 RPM, there are a few 45 ones, and quite a large collection of old 78 RPMs too. Of course I would need a turntable which can play 78 RPM too, but my doubt is this: 78 RPM records seem made of a different material to me. Harder, more brittle, heavier, almost ceramic in consistency (I guess it's called "shellac"). Would the same stylus/cartridge be able to play all kinds of records in my possession? Is there one which would be able to play old (late 1940's-early 1950's) 78 RPM New Orleans jazz records, 1960's Frank Sinatra "softer vinyl" 33 RPMs, and today's vinyl releases? Or would I risk damage to the stylus/cartridge or to the records?

The turntable: I have heard great things of the Pro-Ject ones, and they are easily found where I live... Which one would be best to have good quality but without being too fanatic? And which arm? In case the Pro-Ject turntables a

The cartridge: I have read that Graham recommends moving magnet, and I have no reason to contradict him (after all, he has proven himself right on other topics so far...). A good one, again of high quality without exceeding with esoteric stuff?

And then the phono preamp... I see that some of the Slee models have equalization switches, while others don't. Can someone easily explain to me the the differences between all the models? I would like something of good quality but easy to use, a "fit for all" one. Although I fear that the "78 RPM" requirement means that the Jazz Club or the Revelation would be the only real choices (again, difference between the two?)... And I read that the Revelation is warmer and with more slam, so, again, I fear that as usual I will have to go for the most expensive option of all... Cry

I know I have been vague, but I had never thought the world of vinyl could offer so many alternatives...

Overall budget shouldn't top 2000 EUR, unless strictly necessary to achieve my goals... And there's no urgency as I will probably make my purchases next year...

Thanks to everyone!

PS I already have a PSU1 for the Solo: can the same PSU1 power both the Solo and a Revelation at the same time (with an adapter), or would I need two of them?




Edited by Lucabeer - 07 May 2009 at 6:48pm
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From memory the Solo is a recent SRG?

In which case it and the re-issued (yes) Revelation (modified to allow use of a switched-mode supply in advance of next years power supply legislation) can be powered together from the same PSU1 (or even a switched-mode!!!)

By the time you purchase all should be compliant anyway.

Although we are doing moving coil versions of the Revelation and Reflex (out soon), I still prefer MM. OK, with MM you have a steeper roll-off around 20kHz but guess what? The recording engineer balanced the recording for MM... because they were more popular... so that's why MCs can sound toppy.

I'd suggest a separate turntable for 78s (maybe I'm saying this because I have a spare Audio Technica P110 that does 78rpm with pitch control too and the wife wants the space... )

(this TT needs modifying by the way which improves its performance no end and we'd do that)

As for cartridge ask tg. Personally I use an Audio Technica AT95E because it's cheap at £25 (GBP) and if it got damaged (which I don't think it would if you cleaned out the boot polish...) it's cheap to replace (and we sell 'em too - plug - plug)

As for a "hi-Fi" turntable I'm going to let other members let you know their prefs...

I quite like my very heavily modified 1979 Rega Planar 3, but they don't make them like that anymore...

I also like my Thorens TD125, and I still can't get over my Technics SL1210...

And the good news is the "Green" Revelation will be a PSU1's worth cheaper than the one supplied with a PSU1.

Good answer? Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucabeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2009 at 8:16am
Yes, very good answer!

And yes, my Solo is an SRG bought in February this year directly from you, so great news! Of course I would need an adapter to power both units from the same PSU1, but I am sure that you would be able to provide one.

The "two separate turntables" option leaves me slightly worried. Or, better, space constraints would be tough (yes, even my wife says I am occupying too much space with my hobbies!).

Probably the best thing to check would be if I really need the 78 RPM option. The large part of the collection is 33 RPM anyway (luckily it's not only the largest part, but also the most interesting one!).

Leaving 78 RPM out would allow me to save quite a bit of money, because as I understand it, I would simply need an Era Gold V or Reflex (the "green" version, since I already have the PSU1) to achieve the best performance.


Edited by Lucabeer - 08 May 2009 at 8:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tg [RIP] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2009 at 9:23am

Luca,

Quote Is there one which would be able to play old (late 1940's-early 1950's) 78 RPM New Orleans jazz records, 1960's Frank Sinatra "softer vinyl" 33 RPMs, and today's vinyl releases? Or would I risk damage to the stylus/cartridge or to the records?

Short answer no, one cartridge will not play 78 and microgroove without risk of damage.

The groove on a 78 is larger and requires a larger diameter stylus than a "microgroove" mono LP or a modern stereo LP.

Using a 78 stylus on microgroove records will cause damage and so too will using a stereo microgroove stylus on a 78 recording.

Some MM cartridges/families  - I think AT are among them, offer a stylus for 78 replay, yep just checked LP Gear and they offer a 78 stylus for the AT95E cartridge, there is also an Ortofon 78 cartridge based on the OM series plus a couple of Grado and a Shure.

Forgetting the 78s, AFAIK there may also be 33 rpm recordings using equalisation curves other than RIAA, it would be worth while cataloguing the older ones to see if the expense of the Revelation were justified for your purpose.  (eg if there are sufficient that you wish to play that do NOT use standard RIAA - this may require some research)

Using a TT with 78 speed (variable pitch is a very good thing for 78s) in addition to 33 & 45 that also offers removeable headshells would be the way to optimise your options while limiting spatial expansion.

Kabusa offer 78 rpm as a modification to the SL1200 and I think an English firm may offer it also at some time soon.

GS offer of the AT might also be an option, particularly if it has removeable headshells.

A relatively inexpensive cartridge that will run into a Reflex/Revelation is the Denon DL110 - IMO this will leave the AT95 floundering in its wake and bring out much of the best in your jazz recordings and will be equally at home with the classical and all but the 78s - whichever phono stage you get, have the mono switch option fitted, I have found this most helpful prior to purchasing a dedicated mono cartridge.

If you are sufficiently equipped for DIY perhaps one of the Lenco idler drives might be a good project, there is heaps of info on the net about these classics and they will give you a deck on which to explore a wide range of arms and cartridges.

Many who listen to a lot of older recordings would recommend the Ortofon SPU cartridges, these are not particularly cheap and need a heavy arm and seem most at home with older idler drive tables like the Garrard 301/401 and Lencos or heavy broadcast type direct drives like the SP10 etc - they are of course MC and as such would require step-up transformers.

Interestingly, my first "stereo system" featured an AM tuner (FM had not happened then), auxiliary inputs for a tape recorder and some type of Garrard autochanger with 4 speeds and a "flip-over stylus" ceramic cartridge - one side had a saphire stylus for 78s and the other had a diamond for everything else.

I think you are in for a fair learning curve, enjoy the ride Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucabeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2009 at 9:56am
Ouch, so many new things to learn! And to think that my father and I have played all these records for years without knowing ANYTHING of this, simply placing the records on the table and listening to the music... Now I understand why some vinyls really sounded BAD and why I welcomed CDs so much! It looks like the vinyl world is not plug and play at all! Embarrassed

About the flipping stylus, now that you mentioned it I remember that the old turntable that we used (more than 20 years ago) had this option too. And now I understand why... When that unit broke, my father simply stopped playing the 78 RPM records because the new Philips only had 45 and 33...


Edited by Lucabeer - 08 May 2009 at 9:59am
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