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Balanced input phono stages |
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roger staton
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Joined: 03 Sep 2018 Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Topic: Balanced input phono stagesPosted: 06 Sep 2018 at 11:13am |
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Hello everyone,
I although am new to the forum, and this is my first post, I am not new to music and the means to reproduce it - a good hifi system. I'm sure all of you must have an itch that they want to scratch and one of mine has been to own and use a phono stage with balanced inputs - ie XLR. Balanced input phono stages have been around for some time and are aimed only at low output MC cartridges. All MC cartridges are balanced by the nature of their design so a balanced input phono stage would seem to be a logical interface? Not everyone can easily use a balanced input phono stage (BIPS for short) as the changing of the cable from their tone arm is not easily achieved - either captive inside the turntable or not having a din plug that easily facilitates change over. These very facts have also prevented accurate reviewing in the hifi press - some reviewers making a half hearted attempt by using rca to xlr adaptors which do allow the full benefit of a BIPS to shine through. I have used a German Aqvox 2CI Mk II BIPS for 2 years now. It has MM and MC inputs - the former via unbalanced rca sockets. My cartridge collection is quite large with Lyra Kleos, VDH Frog, L*nn Arkiv, Denon 103R and Miyajima Mono Zero MC carts. and Grado Statement Master, Grado Reference, Musicmaker mkII and Soundsmith Zephir Mimic II LO MM cartridges. The heart of a phono stage for me is its MM stage which I use a lot not only with my MM carts but with a range of SUTs - Ear MC-4, K & K Audio and Fidelity Research FRT3 units. The musicality of the Aqvox's MM input is extremely musical to my ears imho. So having got that off my chest do any of you have any experience of BIPSs? Also extremly interested in Graham's opinion of BIPS and SUTs with MC carts into his MM stages. Thank's for reading. |
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Graham Slee
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Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16314 |
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Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 11:37am |
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Give one of ours a try before venturing too far into something which might just send you down a fruitless trail. Our loaner program (volunteer) coordinators are ready to help. It is over 25 years since I thought of doing a BIPS (as you abbreviate it), and I made one, and adapted the arm cable to suit. Measureably there was little difference, and OK, I quite liked the sound. Then, needing the turntable for its usual duties using a regular input I modified the arm cable back to what it was. I then made the input psuedo balanced based on a PMI application note (which basically shifted the balance nearer single-ended), and I could hear no difference at all. But it sounded fine, and I switched my listening to it. In fact I kept it like that until around 20 years ago - the point where I started commercial manufacture of my own designs. My opinion is that much more can be achieved without such faffing about. |
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Graham Slee
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Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16314 |
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Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 1:36pm |
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In fact here's the circuit recalled from memory... You and anybody else are welcome to build it and give it a try, but I take no responsibility for any errors this diagram may contain. As I said above, it's recalled from memory.
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That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Graham Slee
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Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16314 |
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Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 1:39pm |
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If a mod has time can this topic be moved to DIY questions and answers?
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That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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roger staton
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Joined: 03 Sep 2018 Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 4:03pm |
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The circuit in the Aqvox BIPS uses passive EQ with no capacitors in the signal path - so their service man Norman tells me. Of course if you choose the wrong type of MC cartridge the match will not be good and the qualities of BIPS will be largely lost. The MC cart.must have a low input impedance and inductance and a large - relatively - amount of current generation. The BIPS is a current amplification device not a voltage amplification device utilised by single ended MC cart phono stages. I never dis things until I've given them a good chance unless there is an obvious flaw in the logic; even then the sound might be magnificent! I am interested in the Accession MM stage and hope to hear it in my system at some future time.
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Richardl60
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Joined: 04 Nov 2014 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1475 |
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Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 4:47pm |
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Welcome Roger. You have a good selection of equipment there.
I would echo Graham's suggestion of trying the most suitable items on the loaner programme; if you are looking for versatility, you may find the Elevator compares well with your SUTs and perhaps from your comments and equipment the Accession MM may be the most suitable (I own both) - haven't tried the Accession MC though. I cannot comment on XLR to phono stage but have found them superior on my CD player; as Graham suggested the offer the shelf items may offer something of interest to you.
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Fatmangolf
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Joined: 23 Dec 2009 Location: Middlesbrough Status: Offline Points: 9695 |
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Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 8:33pm |
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Welcome Roger. Please give me a shout if you would like to try any of the HFC gear. I've used balanced gear including low level ribbon microphones (passive so low impedance sources) and concluded that its main benefit was in the balanced microphone cables not the gain stages where you need two identical stages or a very good balanced receiver stage. |
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Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
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