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Acoustical Room Treatment
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morris_minor View Drop Down
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Joined: 27 Mar 2012
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Points: 6197 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morris_minor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2013 at 9:19pm
That's a very interesting post Drewan! I've read lots of good things about active room correction....

And don't worry about not being too techy! I'm pretty challenged technically and learn a lot here.
Bob

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Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
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Points: 1544 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drewan77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2013 at 9:34pm
Thanks Bob,

I'm just listening to a vinyl copy of John Mayall, USA Union and it really does sound good through the Reflex, last time I listened was with a Rega phono and this is something else, the vocal is now in front of the instruments for the first timeLamp . My reference is live music - last weekend I was at the Acoustic Festival of Britain (Babajack and 'Bluesboy' Dan Owen are worth hunting down) and in 3 weeks Glastonbury. As I said...I'm rather obsessed

Drewan
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Andrew
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Points: 124 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ellisdj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 3:42pm
I havent read this whole thread - but I will say this a rooms acoustics plays a huge role in the sound you hear.

Getting first reflections taken care of really makes a differencem and if only I could bass trap all the corners it would be heavenly!!!

Very easy to make panels yourself - they are not pretty and the mrs will maon her socks off but so worth it .

I used to have a terrible slap echo (flutter echo) in my room 7 panels later its mostly gone :)
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Points: 9695 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 6:37pm
I have Audyssey DSX in my Onkyo AV amp and it does a great job on movies. Full sub-bass without blob or boom and soundtrack mustic sounds fine.
 
With stereo hi-fi I've always worked on this basis:
 
Kill any irritating flutter echo with drapes or panels, use bookshelves/record racks on long walls
Aim for an equilateral triangle between 2 speakers and central listening spot
Position the speakers away from side walls
Move speakers towards and away from the back walls to minimise bass boom/one note bass
And aim speakers to cross behind listening position 
 
I agree with Terry (or his wife) about the acoustic versus visual issue!
 
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Points: 124 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ellisdj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 7:21pm
After installing acoustic treatments I am with Meridian and their theory that there should no eq above 250hz.  Treating the room is far better than eq.

But Eq still in the bass region only as its difficult to treat a room for bass without it being fully dedicated - I actually eq my sub to a hard knee house curve - this is based on the theory that we hear lower bass notes at decreasing volume the lower they go.  The Hard Knee House curve is linear unlike a normal house curve that causes bloated bass.

If anyone is interested I can put details on here about it - luckily someone has done all the leg work on this already
It may sound odd to have bass increased in this way - I dont increase I reduce I must stress - there is no boosting of Feqs, but it makes a lot of sense, especially when you hear it
The fact its linear keeps the bass tight and controlled but you hear all the freqs (that are not nulls) at equal volumes

I use Room Equalisation Wizrd to measure the speakers and subs resposne - then use its auto eq filter system to create the filters that i then enter into Meridians room correction system MRC.

The auto system is not very good so manually I have much more control
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Originally posted by Drewan77 Drewan77 wrote:


I am not saying that DEQX is the only solution to a poor room.

I was very interested in this when I read Andrew's post some weeks ago, but not at that price! Today i''ve been reading about the much more modestly priced DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core, which seems to have rave reviews. Does anyone here have any experience with this bit of kit?
Ifor
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Originally posted by ICL1P ICL1P wrote:

Today i''ve been reading about the much more modestly priced DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core, which seems to have rave reviews. Does anyone here have any experience with this bit of kit?

Hello Ifor

 
I am by no means an expert on digital room correction but I do have quite a lot of hands on experience in this area.  Following your posting,  I have read the Absolute Sound article and much of what they describe sounds familiar. The Anti Mode 2.0 DC  appears to offer room equalisation of frequencies below 500hz as well as replacing the DAC and preamp. In all these respects it is similar to part of what my system uses
 

Taking room correction:  I would say that the benefits are easiest to see if you use full range speakers with inbuilt crossovers. The microphone at listening position will then help address room modes, frequencies causing room interaction can be boosted or reduced accordingly. Phase and timing remain the same as the speakers were designed to have

 
In this configuration the DSPeaker product ‘should’ work well and it certainly gets a good review
 

However if you use subwoofers then the situation becomes much more complex because the interaction between 1) crossover, 2)  time alignment and 3) phase can make a substantial difference. There will still be benefits but I have found that all three areas affect each other and time alignment becomes quite critical (frequencies have differing wavelengths and there is no ‘perfect’ time alignment, just a compromise spot where it actually ‘sounds’ perfect in that particular room)

 
I can give an example of this last comment from experience – my speakers are optimised for an almost flat measured in room response 16hz upwards. Changing time alignment i.e on the main speakers by an additional 2.7ms to the furthest sub creates a noticeable boomy peak around 85hz. No change to equalisation to cause this either. It is because the timing at that frequency is now out of step with the rest of the range and it just doesn’t sound right. Equalisation doesn’t cure that because all it does is increase or reduce the volume around 85hz to make the hump more or less noticeable
 
If I move alignment to, say 5.3ms then the audible change appears elsewhere in the low frequency response. In this case bass appears to decrease, probably because the room interaction is now cancelling a particular frequency which is out of step time wise. Return to the correct time alignment and it jumps back into real performers sounding just as if they are in front of you with ‘space’ around each one.  Amazing really that such minute differences can be so noticeable. Therefore, with subwooferss I believe room equalisation alone may not be sufficient and the Absolute Sound article acknowledges that too
 
 

So for this type of system, the DSPeaker product should still be able to address part of the room issue and I wouldn’t mind betting will still sound a lot better than uncorrected, just not as good as it could be

 
The end result can be stunningly realistic, as mine is (2 channel only). This is a way to stop a poor room ruining the enjoyment &  I like to listen to music, not ‘hi-fi’ or noticing abberations.  It still surprises me how much difference I obtained the very first time I (time aligned) corrected my room from its original incarnation, using the same sources, cabling and speakers. ‘Night and Day’ is an overused term but in this case pretty accurate
 

Anyone reading this is quite entitled to be sceptical and I do not claim to understand everything about the subject  but room correction really does work once it’s implemented correctly
Older than I once was, younger than I'll be
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Andrew
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