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A quick "hi" and a question
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Paul H View Drop Down
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Points: 121 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 4:57pm
Let me clarify: I didn't mean to suggest that the info you were providing was cobblers; I meant my grasp of the theory.

Let me try to explain.

I was assuming that a lower power amp would produce less maximum volume than a higher powered one, so that max volume (let's call it 10) might be, I dunno, 110dB on a high powered amp but only 90dB on a low powered amp. Thus, to reach the same actual volume, one would have to turn the volume control higher. 

What I was surmising was that the above assumption of mine might be cobblers because I don't understand things clearly enough.
ProJect 1Xpression Carbon UKX w/ Ortofon 2M Black; Arcam Alpha 7 CD player; Graham Slee Revelation M pre; Denon PMA 355UK amp; Epos K1 speakers; Blue Jeans LC-1 interconnects. Room: 2.9m x 3.1m.
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discrete badger View Drop Down
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Points: 482 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote discrete badger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by Paul H Paul H wrote:

Thus, to reach the same actual volume, one would have to turn the volume control higher. 

It all depends on the voltage gain, which is yet another quantity set by the designer, and which the power rating of the amp won't give you.

Example: you could have a 25w integrated amp with a 25db gain, and you could have a integrated 50w amp with a 20db gain. With the volume controls set to maximum, and driven from the same source, the 25w amp would sound significantly louder!

However, as you increase the level of the input signal, one of the amps will start to clip before the other. It's more likely to be the one with lower voltage rails at the power amplifier stage. This is more likely (but not certain) to be the 25w amp. The reason why it's not certain is that the 50w amp could be badly designed and have plenty of voltage delivery capacity at no load, which could collapse when a load (impedance) is placed across the speaker terminals. This is why nominal power figures are given with a load specified.

Confusing? Certainly is!


Edited by discrete badger - 24 Mar 2016 at 5:35pm
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Richardl60 View Drop Down
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Points: 1475 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richardl60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 5:47pm
There appear quite a few generalisations here re power and speaker efficiency. Surely this key issue is in the design AND exectution? If this was a truism we would be striving for a few milliwatt amp to drive mega efficient speakers to provide the best sound in the world?

I haven't listened to any electrocompeniet amps for about 30 years so cannot comment but would be surprised if some of the so called super amp manufacturers hadnt latched on to the the lower power the better argument? As stated believe design and execution are the key which is probably why the proprius is said to sound so good?
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BAK View Drop Down
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Points: 1831 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 6:36pm
That is OK Paul.
 I am not here to criticize anyone, that is not in the forum's best interest, and not my way either.

 The lower power amp will bring the range on your volume control to be wider and more usable, the same as using an attenuator on the higher power amp will.

See my recent post at:
http://audio-forum.gspaudio.co.uk/volume-controls-better-1100-and-above_topic2854_post43883.html#43883
Bruce
AT-14SA, Pickering XV-15, Hana EL, Technics SL-1600MK2, Lautus, Majestic DAC, Technics SH-8055 spectrum analyzer, Eminence Beta8A custom cabs; Proprius & Reflex M or C, Enjoy Life your way!
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