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1st impressions Solo ULD trial

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Graham Slee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by gbr2004uk gbr2004uk wrote:

By the way, I've been reading up more stuff around the web, this business of tube amps producing even harmonics, and solid states producing odd harmonics, the former sounding better to most people, the latter, the reverse.


Marcus Graham Scroggie, B.Sc., F.I.E.E., (1901–1989) was a British technical author active in the fields of radio and electronics.

I wish I could call on him to explain to you and many many others what utter bullsh*t you've been reading.

Probably written by a non-technical marketing man and regurgitated like vomit all over the web.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gbr2004uk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by Graham Slee Graham Slee wrote:

[QUOTE=gbr2004uk] ... what utter bullsh*t you've been reading. ...

Well, Graham, I'm glad you've cleared that up! Wink  A colleague of mine (before I'd retired) kept a large mug prominently placed on her desk with words of wisdom for her patients painted on it, "Please don't confuse your google research with my medical degree".

All best
Brian
Voyager 2009, Bitzie+Lautus cable 2013, Sennheiser HD700 & 650, Yamaha Clavinova
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 10:32pm
Spot on. As I turned the page I saw Graham has put it much better than I could have.

Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 7:03am
A simple class A stage is akin to a weight trainer pulling down on a sprung device. He pulls down and the spring pulls up. There is a weight attached to the end of the spring - the other end fastened to the gym ceiling - such that the device's other end hangs low enough to be reached.

The weight trainer can pull it all the way to the ground, but the spring cannot pull it all the way to the ceiling. If it were the resultant cycles would describe a sine wave.

However, the upward half cycle starts to flatten out because of the weight on the spring and so describes a fatter curve.

A sine wave describes an upward facing parabola followed by a downward facing parabola. One is OK the other is not. A parabola is a graph of a quadratic function, y = x2. The distortion is therefore second harmonic.

Now replace the spring with a resistor, and the weight trainer with a valve, it is still the graph of a quadratic function.

So replace the valve with a transistor, it is still the graph of a quadratic function.

And now an FET, it is still a quadratic function.

There are many more mathematical proofs.

Now, if we make it push-pull, like a class AB power output stage, we can imagine both parabolas being misshapen. This describes a polynomial function y = x3 - third harmonic. We can use valves or we can use transistors.

And if we make push or pull different the polynomial function can be y = x4 - fourth harmonic.

In reality there are many other factors, but the above are the dominant ones.

But you don't have to do mathematics to be a salesman!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 9:30am
Now, we can look at the above harmonic distortion in another way. We can imagine a straight diagonal line which represents linearity ( y = x ) but one end - the spring end - causes the line to curve. Because we only have one curve it must be of the form y = x2, and that is a quadratic function and so is second order.

If we make it push pull then we will have curves at both ends. This makes it a polynomial of the form y = x3, and that is third order.

But if we unbalance the push pull we have both second and third orders and possibly 4th order, and we could if we wanted, emphasize the second and 4th orders.

One such circuit is the quasi-complimentary output stage used in several early transistor amplifiers due to the lack of good PNP power transistors of that time.

Now, it can also be argued that the VAS (voltage amplifier stage) contributes to the third order, and that will be true where class A-A techniques are used because class A-A is a form of push pull.

And, unless you have a very low powered SET (single ended tube) driving an output transformer (try making it high power...), then you will need two valves working in push pull, and therefore there will be a curve at each end of the line, which makes it third order.

But then it could be argued that the VAS uses single ended valves which have only one curve making second order harmonics, and so you have a combination of second and third with a valve amp.

And also, the early transistor amplifiers by the above argument have a combination of second and third.

It is only when we bring on the fully complimentary transistor amplifier, supposedly done that way to cancel distortion, that we can't have any (or enough to warrant it) second order harmonics, because we have double ended curves everywhere.

But what if the distortion from a transistor amplifier was so low it could not be heard?

The valve amplifier would then obviously differ because it is producing distortion.

But if that distortion was also low enough as not to be detected by ear, what then could be the difference?

I have been telling you that answer for a number of years.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gbr2004uk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 10:58am
Thanks Graham.  I did used to be quite good at maths and physics when I was a student but that's a long time ago!  In simple and very basic non technical terms what does your answer mean, in terms of the sound of a wide variety of music through an amplifier?

That the longrunning, neverending back-&-forth between tubes-or-solidstate is ... what?  A waste of time, based on a misunderstanding, ultimately, as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, sound is in the ear of the auditor?

I'm not the hypothetical salesman but I am the (generalised) hypothetical purchaser, and an honest salesman doesn't say to me, 'Valves are definitely the way to go', he says ... what?   Try 'em all and see or what's the size of your budget?

All best
Brian


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 8:20pm
This is one of many occasions where I know Graham knows a lot more than me and that's why my music sounds great through his gear. I'd say let your ears decide and then step put of this thread.

Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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