Proprius in my system? Tell me how?
Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: And the rest
Forum Name: Amplification
Forum Description: Share your interests or views on amplifiers, preamps, etc
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2270
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Topic: Proprius in my system? Tell me how?
Posted By: CageyH
Subject: Proprius in my system? Tell me how?
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2014 at 9:00am
I don't have a pre-amp in my system, and I am thinking of upgrading my ageing Arcam Alpha 8 and 8P amplification without having to spend too much. (This means no majestic DAC at the same time).
I want to retain a remote control volume function, so I was thinking that I could use my Arcam Alpha 8R as the pre-amp for now, and use an RCA to XLR cable to power the Proprius amps next to the speaker. I would then replace the 8R with a decent pre-amp at a later date.
Does that make sense, and would it work? Or could I use my Solo UL as a Pre-amp?
Phase anybody tried Bi-Amping speakers with Proprius yet?
Bearing in mind I have Cyrus CLS70 speakers, is this the most appropriate upgrade route?
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Replies:
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2014 at 8:34pm
Arcam Alpha 8R preamp out should be just the job for a while. I'm hoping to properly start work on my preamp this month.
I sort of bi-amped using four Proprius on the Road Show: I ran the AB2 bass subs from one pair and the LS3/5a's from the other.
I can have a go at bi-amping the LS3/5a itself at the Cranage show when I do the setting up. I don't have room in the workshop right now.
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2014 at 8:48pm
I may have to borrow the Proprius from Suggs (assuming he has some) but I am concerned that I won't want to give them back!
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2014 at 6:57am
CageyH wrote:
I may have to borrow the Proprius from Suggs (assuming he has some) but I am concerned that I won't want to give them back! |
I very well understand this condition but it is only temporary and there is nothing to be concerned about... except for the 'M' word (and no, I don't mean the Majestic DAC). No 'M' is that difficult subject, in fact so difficult that even Alan Greenspan went in the wrong direction. I too have screwed-up by buying the wrong thing on ocsasion just to save 'M'.
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2014 at 7:09am
Are there any published reviews of the Proptprius? I'm just interested to read what they say.
Yes, it's only money, but you can only spend it once.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2014 at 7:46am
CageyH wrote:
Yes, it's only money, but you can only spend it once. |
That seems lucky... I usually have to spend it many times 
There is only one magazine that has been interested in the Proprius and that is the German Hi-Fi Stars magazine. I may spend a lot of money on full and half page ads in UK magazines but they'd rather review other peoples products - but it shows they're not influenced by advertisers...
Quoted from the press review tab on the http://www.gspaudio.co.uk/power-amp.htm - Proprius product page ...
"So small may be their physical appearance, so great are their
musical charisma and playfulness. Amplifiers must in future be measured
in my system with the Graham Slee Proprius..."
[Hi-Fi Stars, März 2014 - Mai 2014 - Amplifiers Graham Slee Proprius Mono (translated from German)] The reviewer bought the review pair after the review - well, actually he was thinking about it, but his wife insisted he bought them. After that, the amps were unavailable to another reviewer on the same magazine, so he contacted us to purchase his own pair. That's a bit different to the UK mags where you send a product and never see it again...
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2014 at 8:16am
If you send me a pair, you probably won't see them again either. I think I'll save up some cash, and go for a home loan. Do the loan coordinators carry RCA to XLR adapters?
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2014 at 9:18am
Graham Slee wrote:
That's a bit different to the UK mags where you send a product and never see it again...
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Erm, isn't that called theft? 
Btw, German hi-fi enthusiasts tend to know good sound when they hear it. Many of the ebay listings for my current HD540IIs said: "Einer der besten von Sennheiser". 
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2014 at 9:59am
CageyH wrote:
If you send me a pair, you probably won't see them again either. I think I'll save up some cash, and go for a home loan. Do the loan coordinators carry RCA to XLR adapters? |
They should have the Lautus and CuSat50 RCA to XLR leads - best ask them to include them.
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 4:43pm
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I'm hoping, subject to trial, to have a squeezebox touch streamer from my computer feeding a Majestic as a preamp/DAC with two Proprius amps to drive my speakers. I figure that if I turn up the volume on the amps I will be able to control the volume remotely from the squeezebox (or iPeng) controls. Hopefully all of the cables and connectors will be GPS products.
This setup will allow me to use the radio and other functions on the squeezebox together with all the music that I possess on the system, doing away with the need for a radio tuner and CD player.
If Jon/Bob or anybody has any advice or comments to make about this proposed system I would be extremely grateful.
------------- 'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'
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Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 5:30pm
msphil wrote:
I figure that if I turn up the volume on the amps I will be able to control the volume remotely from the squeezebox (or iPeng) controls. Hopefully all of the cables and connectors will be GPS products.
If Jon/Bob or anybody has any advice or comments to make about this proposed system I would be extremely grateful. |
I also use a Squeezebox Touch into the Majestic via Lautaus digital coax , sometimes using iPeng to select tracks or playlists via a tablet (but not volume). I also use the Enhanced Digital Output applet
I am not sure about using the digital volume control - on some software, reducing volume progressively reduces the bit rate so I always leave this at maximum and use the system/Majestic analogue volume control. Maybe somebody else can explain if this could have an impact with the Squeezebox software?
------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew
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Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 6:36pm
I could (if I had a Majestic DAC) do the same with my Raspberry Pi / HiFiBerry Digi /Volumio, but I understand that digital volume control is detrimental to ultimate SQ. One is also advised not to use it in iTunes.
BTW, lovers of Squeezebox wanting to expand / replace their system might like to consider Raspberry Pi / HiFiBerry Digi / Squeezeplug.
------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.
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Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 8:19pm
msphil wrote:
I'm hoping, subject to trial, to have a squeezebox touch streamer from my computer feeding a Majestic as a preamp/DAC with two Proprius amps to drive my speakers. I figure that if I turn up the volume on the amps I will be able to control the volume remotely from the squeezebox (or iPeng) controls. Hopefully all of the cables and connectors will be GPS products.
This setup will allow me to use the radio and other functions on the squeezebox together with all the music that I possess on the system, doing away with the need for a radio tuner and CD player.
If Jon/Bob or anybody has any advice or comments to make about this proposed system I would be extremely grateful. | I reckon this would work well Phil. There's a caveat about having digital volume control: I don't know how this works, but it's supposedly detrimental to SQ if used radically. If you set the Proprius amps to full volume, then set the Majestic to the maximum volume you'd want when the Touch was outputting 100% volume, using iPeng or the SBT remote to lower the digital volume somewhat probably wouldn't have any audible effect on SQ. Only a trial would determine if this was an issue.
As far as the Radio Tuner is concerned, I think FM radio will give you better quality (with a good aerial and strong signal) than internet radio. But again, a trial would enable you to discern if this was a problem.
CDs are history! 
------------- Bob
Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 5:54pm
Too big a tax bill has arrived, so I am going to have to put this on hold. I'm not even going to torture myself by borrowing them from the loan scheme. Another year...
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 7:56pm
I have decided to keep my Proprius as I reckon that I would eventually regret selling them. Not sure how much longer headphones are going to satisfy my expectations... Now in search of a 540II beater but such a thing probably won't be a headphone.
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 9:57pm
You are going to have to accept that headphones are different to speakers.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 8:34pm
Ash wrote:
I have decided to keep my Proprius as I reckon that I would eventually regret selling them. | Really glad to hear that Ash, a good decision....
------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew
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Posted By: Suggs
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 10:14am
CageyH wrote:
Too big a tax bill has arrived, so I am going to have to put this on hold. I'm not even going to torture myself by borrowing them from the loan scheme. Another year... |
Yes, that's one of the fun things about living in France 
------------- Derek
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 5:08pm
Suggs wrote:
CageyH wrote:
Too big a tax bill has arrived, so I am going to have to put this on hold. I'm not even going to torture myself by borrowing them from the loan scheme. Another year... |
Yes, that's one of the fun things about living in France 
|
Should I have a word with a finance company?
CageyH wrote:
Another year... |
They'll only send you another tax bill.
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2014 at 10:58am
Graham Slee wrote:
Suggs wrote:
CageyH wrote:
Too big a tax bill has arrived, so I am going to have to put this on hold. I'm not even going to torture myself by borrowing them from the loan scheme. Another year... |
Yes, that's one of the fun things about living in France 
|
Should I have a word with a finance company?
CageyH wrote:
Another year... |
They'll only send you another tax bill.
|
Oh, I'll keep getting tax bills. They will never forget, that's for sure. Finance companies at 29.7% APR don't interest me in the slightest though.
The main reason of not buying now is house improvements. Roof insulation, new windows and central heating system. If they deliver close to the savings promised, that will mean more money for HiFi, or whatever Mrs. H wants.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2014 at 7:57pm
Talking about savings, my new system is already saving me money. The gas bill for the last three months is only 10% of what it was this time last year. A 90% saving isn't to be sniffed at!
I may be upgrading my amps before I know it!
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2014 at 10:14pm
Well, I am now €350 closer to an amp upgrade. If I manage to sell my RB251 I'll be half way. However, the Pre may be just the thing I need.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2014 at 5:23pm
morris_minor wrote:
msphil wrote:
I'm hoping, subject to trial, to have a squeezebox touch streamer from my computer feeding a Majestic as a preamp/DAC with two Proprius amps to drive my speakers. I figure that if I turn up the volume on the amps I will be able to control the volume remotely from the squeezebox (or iPeng) controls. Hopefully all of the cables and connectors will be GPS products.
This setup will allow me to use the radio and other functions on the squeezebox together with all the music that I possess on the system, doing away with the need for a radio tuner and CD player.
If Jon/Bob or anybody has any advice or comments to make about this proposed system I would be extremely grateful. | I reckon this would work well Phil. There's a caveat about having digital volume control: I don't know how this works, but it's supposedly detrimental to SQ if used radically. If you set the Proprius amps to full volume, then set the Majestic to the maximum volume you'd want when the Touch was outputting 100% volume, using iPeng or the SBT remote to lower the digital volume somewhat probably wouldn't have any audible effect on SQ. Only a trial would determine if this was an issue.
As far as the Radio Tuner is concerned, I think FM radio will give you better quality (with a good aerial and strong signal) than internet radio. But again, a trial would enable you to discern if this was a problem.
CDs are history!  |
I have now had my Majestic/Proprius/GSP interconnect, hi-fi setup (outlined above) in the lounge for nearly two weeks. It has been set up pretty much as Bob suggested without apparent loss of quality. In spite of it's limited burn in time, I have to tell you that I am very, very impressed and pleased with my system.
Before trying it out I had been concerned that the Proprius amplifiers 25 W power may not be able to drive my 20 year old power hungry Mission floor standing speakers adequately. I needn't have worried, in practice there is enough power to blow the tiles off the roof! For a relatively modest outlay I have now replaced my old Cyrus hi-fi system for one that is much better, is relatively inexpensive, and which is without doubt much better value.
One thing I wanted to do, which turned out not to be possible, was to use GSP speaker cables (in addition to the interconnects) so that I could have a complete Graham Slee system. The reason for this not happening was that when I built my house 12 years ago I built in a plastic pipe which ran behind the fireplace. The intention was that this pipe would prevent my speaker cable having to run round the front of the fireplace. Unfortunately in the building process (after I had installed my old speaker cables) this pipe has become partially blocked making it impossible to pull the old wires through. Tolerant though Mrs P is of my music and hi-fi she is less than happy to have a wire spoiling the look of her lounge. I will obviously have to find another way round this.
Until recently I have been enjoying and concentrating on the sound of my excellent Majestic/Solo ULDE headphone system which is housed in the bedroom. I had thought it would be difficult to better this. However, as others have commented, I have discovered headphones give a slightly more closed and less spacious sound than a good speaker system. I have been incredibly impressed with the new systems ability to place the music, instruments or sounds in a more open and airy environment. This inevitably leads to a slightly more natural, transparent sound stage that is in front or around you rather than in your head. Really good headphones can possibly produce a more forensically detailed natural sound but they cannot project sound that can literally hits you in the solar plexus, or project quite the same spatial experience of, for example, a bird flying around the room!
This ability is a testament to Graham's Proprius amplifiers. If my experience is anything to go by you would have to spend an enormous amount of money to equal a Majestic/Proprius system. My idea of hi-fi heaven is my present system complete with GSP speaker cables together with a carefully chosen modern top quality pair of speakers. In time who knows?
------------- 'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2014 at 7:09pm
I have won an AKG K1000. Serial number is in the 3000s. About £850 altogether, I reckon. My Proprius monoblocks are trembling with tears of excitement. 
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2014 at 9:36pm
Phil and Ash, that is great news from both of you!
------------- Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2014 at 10:02pm
Welcome back Jon Hope you had a good holiday!
------------- 'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2014 at 10:32pm
The holiday was good, thanks Phil. Plenty of sunshine and golf in Norfolk. Sadly I came back to a lot of urgent workload hence my prolonged absence.
------------- Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2014 at 2:57pm
Are Proprius suitable for driving Cyrus CLS 70 with a sensitivity of 87db? I may have found a pair 2nd hand.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2014 at 7:54pm
If it can fill a hi-fi show room using 11 Ohm 83dB sensitivity speakers (LS3/5a) then it should be able to do more using 8 Ohm 87dB sensitivity speakers.
It also has the balls 
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2014 at 8:26pm
Cool. I have found a 2nd hand pair more in line with my budget. If they have a similar sound to the Solo UL I'll be a happy man. Then it's a case of saving up for the Pre.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2014 at 10:29pm
If the Proprius have any kind of sonic signature, I've yet to hear it. Just exquisite neutrality.
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2014 at 12:14am
Very much like the Solo UL then?
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2014 at 5:34pm
Pretty much, yeah. They both have extreme stability in common. I consider it a great honour to own Graham's specialist electronics in my bedroom. I've spent several thousand on GSP audio products altogether and I admit I'm a crazy eccentric but these are the music companions of a lifetime. Why would a music lover like myself go anywhere else? This is the closest I'm gonna get to a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow... Well more realistically, I have to pay a (big) pot of gold to dance on the rainbow but the experience more than makes up for the losses.
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2014 at 10:02pm
Mrs H has given me the green light, so I hope to have them soon.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2014 at 6:43am
They are about 6 months old and hardly used.
Just waiting for the vendor to confirm a few details and they should be on their way to France.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2014 at 4:57pm
Advert has been pulled. Back to square one....
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Suggs
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 7:06am
Bad luck Kevin...you should have gone for them right away
------------- Derek
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 7:13am
I did.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 3:37pm
I am really tempted to try the loan set from Suggs, but Mrs H points out it's just dead money, and I may as well just buy them.
I knew there was a reason why I married her, it just takes a while to remember.
Has anybody ever returned a pair?
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 3:45pm
CageyH wrote:
Has anybody ever returned a pair? |
Not to us, and not to any dealer to the best of our knowledge (I don't like tempting fate and as such I didn't feel like giving an answer ).
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 3:54pm
And I don't want to be the first! What I am struggling with is the how the speaker impedance varies with frequency. I can't find any data on it, but I notice the amps handle 200W peaks.
Am I being over cautious?
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 4:12pm
Use of loan scheme is a no-brainer. The loan postage cost is such a small percentage of the product cost that it really is irrelevant. That way, you can identify any possible issues before a purchase.
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 4:18pm
It may be a no brainer to you, however if the amps are as good as I am lead to believe then it's an unnecessary step, as my purchase would be covered by consumer contracts regulations (which replaced the distance selling regulations).
I have been very happy with the rest of my GSP kit. Why should these be any different?
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 4:39pm
I'm sure you will not be disappointed with the sound quality. Don't get hung up on speaker specs. I use Dynaudio Gemini's which are not very sensitive, ~84/86db/watt if I recall, they went more than loud enough, Heavy Rock type loud at that, in my 20'x14' lounge when I had the Proprii on loan.
------------- Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 4:41pm
I guess that all Watts are not measured equal. I don't want my system to go very loud. I just want it to sound very good.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 5:09pm
The Proprius were also at Aylesbury. Worth asking those who attended if they sounded good or not?
The Aylesbury topic lists some of those who attended and I'm sure they wouldn't mind receiving a PM from you.
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 5:13pm
I have also asked around on other forums where people were also at Cranage Hall (?) and as I said before, I am yet to hear a bad word said about them. This is why the Loan Scheme seems a waste of time to me.
I just need Mrs H to say yes, and I'll try and squeeze my order in before your closure.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 5:21pm
The Proprius sound incredible. I don't understand how any sane person could be disappointed with how they sound. I was going to sell mine only because I gave up on speakers but now I've got an AKG K1000, they have new found purpose. The AKG K1000 is very transparent and neutral through them with a... ummm... passionate analogue quality.
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 5:39pm
CageyH wrote:
I just need Mrs H to say yes, and I'll try and squeeze my order in before your closure. |
They'd have to be built. They would probably get dispatched on 7th August if ordered now. Production staff are away the next two weeks. Sorry I am unable to step into production "shoes" - the VAT man would not like me if I submitted the VAT return late (I have to do the quarterly books).
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 5:56pm
No problem. I understand hand built goods take time to build. Anyway, you have an order to build when the staff get back.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 8:15pm
Maybe worth saying that I was a bit unsure about how well the 25w Proprii would drive my PMCs. But it was decades of brainwashing telling me you need high power amps for quality sound sowing the seeds of doubt. All totally unfounded as the Proprii are the best amps I've had - unforced, relaxed, sound at high volume, great dynamics, oodles of detail. No downsides at all....
------------- Bob
Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 10:11pm
Thanks for the info Bob.
I am pretty confident that they will be fine. They have to be better than my Arcam gear anyway.
I'm going to make up some cables, as funds are a bit short to buy any.
The new bathroom looks nice though.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 11:41pm
morris_minor wrote:
Maybe worth saying that I was a bit unsure about how well the 25w Proprii would drive my PMCs. But it was decades of brainwashing telling me you need high power amps for quality sound sowing the seeds of doubt. All totally unfounded as the Proprii are the best amps I've had - unforced, relaxed, sound at high volume, great dynamics, oodles of detail. No downsides at all.... |
I couldn't agree more with Bob. I was also concerns that they wouldn't drive my vintage Mission 753's. However, I can confirm that they sound absolutely fantastic, especially when coupled with the Majestic. A combination made in hi-fi heaven! When you first get them you think that they sound good, but then unbelievably they keep getting better and better as the burn in!
Everytime I have an extended music listening session I end up with a quiet, spaced out smile on my face. My Music is streemed from my computer via a Squeezebox Touch and it's great to just put it on random play. That way I come across music I haven't heard for a while and I'm absolutely gobsmacked by its quality. I've never heared any of my stuff sound so good! Even very old recordings sound much better! Believe me, you would be hard pressed to find anything as good at any price!
------------- 'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'
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Posted By: Frostg
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2014 at 2:19am
is there a level of sensitivity (e.g. 85db etc) below which the proprius is not recommended?os to put it in the positive from what db level sensitivity should the proprius have no problem driving speakers?
thanks
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2014 at 12:24pm
One last question (I hope). Is there a limit on the length of the interconnect I can use going from the pre amp RCA to the balanced input on the Proprius?
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2014 at 3:07pm
You'd be using the balanced input single ended by going from an RCA jack.
I'd reckon on 3 metres using a CuSat50 or Lautus, but if kept well away from any sources of interference, then 5 metres should be possible.
I cannot say the same for all interconnects. The CuSat50 and Lautus are roughly 56pf per metre, and at 5 metres that's 280pf, which is high IMO, but still OK. Contrast that with the "old" Radiospares screened cable at 300pf per metre.
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2014 at 3:14pm
Frostg wrote:
is there a level of sensitivity (e.g. 85db etc) below which the proprius is not recommended?os to put it in the positive from what db level sensitivity should the proprius have no problem driving speakers?
thanks |
My LS3/5a are 82dB (I think) and 11 Ohms and were loud enough for the shows we did recently. See comments here: http://audio-forum.gspaudio.co.uk/roadshow_topic2199_post26217.html#26217 - http://audio-forum.gspaudio.co.uk/roadshow_topic2199_post26217.html#26217
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2014 at 4:01pm
Graham Slee wrote:
You'd be using the balanced input single ended by going from an RCA jack.
I'd reckon on 3 metres using a CuSat50 or Lautus, but if kept well away from any sources of interference, then 5 metres should be possible.
I cannot say the same for all interconnects. The CuSat50 and Lautus are roughly 56pf per metre, and at 5 metres that's 280pf, which is high IMO, but still OK. Contrast that with the "old" Radiospares screened cable at 300pf per metre.
|
Thanks Graham. The cable I intend on using is 55pf per metre, so I shall try it and see. It's double screened as well, so will hopefully minimise any interference. If it does not work, then I'll go back to using speaker cable and put the amps on my rack.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2014 at 8:06pm
I actually have a pair of 3 metre dual-mono phono-XLR Lautus cables for sale if they are of any interest. This is because I shall get balanced Libran cables (TRS-XLR??) when I buy a Majestic. Will the Libran cables be available soon Graham?? I don't want to put off my Majestic order for too much longer. I'm going to sell my Bitzies to fund it as well.
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2014 at 8:45pm
Thanks Ash, but it's about 2M short.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2014 at 9:04pm
We were using Librans at Aylesbury but have been so busy that we forgot to do a webpage... and a price list 
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2014 at 9:59pm
Okay, so they are available. That's good. Are they essentially a balanced Lautus cable, yeah? So minimum length is 1.5m?
Less than 1.5m is a balanced CuSat50 whilst over 1.5m is a balanced Lautus?
Although balanced cables are only required for long runs.
Confused.
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2014 at 9:31am
No, the Librans are whatever length you want. They don't use any magnetics - they're not Lautus.
Maximum length is dependent on the balanced driver's capability. 600 Ohm balanced is meant for relatively short distances - the Majestic balanced outputs are 600 Ohm balanced - by short distances I mean those encountered in a studio, such as between control room equipment and equipment in the on-air/live studio.
Because of the possibility of equipment being needed to drive long cables, broadcast or recording studios tend to specify balanced connections on all equipment, but some may be positioned next to each other in a rack unit with only small distances to cable. Even so, these will use balanced interconnects even though it's not necessary.
For long distances such as between floors in a building via dry-risers, or between racks rooms and studios, 600 Ohm would not be used and most likely 150 Ohm would. This would not result in the best high fidelity sonics as transformers are needed to drive at 150 Ohms. Transformer distortion increases rapidly at low bass frequencies, and the transformers would need to be quite physically large to get the bass distortion down.
The above being based on my experience in designing line drivers and distribution units for studio and broadcast work.
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2014 at 8:41pm
If the Libran don't have the "electromagnetic filter" of the Lautus interconnects then it is no better than the CuSat50 for short cable runs as balanced configuration provides no advantage in this application. Would I be better connecting 1.5m unbalanced Lautus cables between the balanced Majestic outputs and the Proprius?
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2014 at 9:37pm
Ash wrote:
If the Libran don't have the "electromagnetic filter" of the Lautus interconnects then it is no better than the CuSat50 for short cable runs as balanced configuration provides no advantage in this application. Would I be better connecting 1.5m unbalanced Lautus cables between the balanced Majestic outputs and the Proprius?
|
Probably 
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2014 at 9:06am
It shouldn't be long now before they are ready to ship? I'm looking forwards to this. I currently have an Alpha 10P driving my speakers, so 100Watts of power. I'm really interested to see how far into next week the Proprius can kick it.
I'm going to make up my cables today ready, including my speaker cables. When I have a bit more cash (after the holidays) I think I'll try the Spatia speaker cables anfpd links to see what difference, if any that they make.
After that, it's some serious saving up for the preamplifier.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2014 at 6:26pm
Is it normal to be getting excited at the thought of arrival of some new HiFi kit?
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: LOINER
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2014 at 6:35pm
CageyH wrote:
Is it normal to be getting excited at the thought of arrival of some new HiFi kit? | Only when it is GSP hifi kit
------------- STUART SOLO ULTRA LINEAR DIAMOND EDITION LAUTUS DUAL MONO 1.5M INTERCONNECTS GRAM AMP 2SE
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2014 at 1:41pm
They are ready for shipping. With a bit of luck, they will be here for the (sleepless?) weekend
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 4:47pm
We'll, as Jack Torrance would say "They're here!"
So, just a quick word on my initial impressions.
WOW!
My setup: SL1200, equipped with the Technics specific Funk FX-1200 carrying a AT150MLX, Mike New Bearing, Mk1 Funk Firm platter and a Long Dog Audio PSU The superb Reflex M The not so superb Arcam Alpha 8R (currently in disguise as a pre-amplifier) Proprius mono-blocks sat on the bottom of the Cyrus CLS70 dedicated stands, which funnily enough hold my CLS70 speakers off the floor. Cabled up with DIY Klotz MC5000 RCA to XLR interconnects, DIY Van Damme Studio (Blue) 6mm speaker cable fitted with Z plugs.
The cables and amps are currently burning in. I have "Love over Gold" playing, and I have never heard it sound so good through my speakers. The amps (at least I think these are making the biggest difference) have really brought the speakers to life. The control, and depth of the bass is superb. The midrange and higher frequencies are sweet, not that the initial hint of sibilance has gone (probably the new Klotz MC5000).
Mark Knopfler now sounds like Mark Knopfler, rather than just a recording of him. There is real punch and slam to the bass in "private investigations", preceded by exquisite detail in both the midrange and higher frequencies.
So, these diminutive boxes have replaced a 100W power amp, and at the moment, I can't see me going back. I have a feeling that the pre-amplifier may be holding things back slightly, but I need to give Graham time to finish his development, and my bank balance to recover.
Can it really get better than this though? I don't think I need it to!
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 6:17pm
Graham,
I need to have a word with you about these amplifiers. They keep getting me into trouble with the Mrs, as they sound so good, the volume has a tendency to creep up to levels that I don't normally use.
I'll post a couple of pictures in a minute.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 7:07pm
Here is a picture of the amp, placed on the speaker stand:

A view from the side, showing just how small the amps really are:

And a view from a more conventional angle:

You can still see the old speaker cable hanging around in one of the photos, as I was unsure if my long interconnects would work ok, but they seem absolutely fine.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 7:12pm
To infinity and beyond!
------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 7:32pm
It's certainly had that affect on my system so far.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 7:38pm
The Proprius monoblocks are incredible amplifiers.
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Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 8:49pm
ICL1P wrote:
To infinity and beyond! | You beat me to it! Mind you the nearest I get is "falling with style . . ."
------------- Bob
Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 8:53pm
You'll be pleased to know that they are secured in place with "uni-directional bonding strips"
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 8:58pm
CageyH wrote:
You'll be pleased to know that they are secured in place with "uni-directional bonding strips"  | Buzz or the Proprii?
------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 11:24pm
CageyH wrote:
Graham,
I need to have a word with you about these amplifiers. They keep getting me into trouble with the Mrs, as they sound so good, the volume has a tendency to creep up to levels that I don't normally use. |
Sounds like you need a Majestic solution....
Sorry, I just read you're saving up for the full pre 
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 6:45am
This is actually a problem Graham. I don't know if I should get the Majestic or the pre-amp. Currently, I only use one analogue source and the Majestic would fit nicely into my system as I have at least 4 digital sources I could use. As I need to save some money, I'll wait until someone has had the opportunity to do some back to back testing.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 7:43am
CageyH wrote:
This is actually a problem Graham. I don't know if I should get the Majestic or the pre-amp. Currently, I only use one analogue source and the Majestic would fit nicely into my system as I have at least 4 digital sources I could use. As I need to save some money, I'll wait until someone has had the opportunity to do some back to back testing. |
I'm in the same position; a Majestic with one analogue source (Reflex) and four digital sources. For me the full preamp might be overkill with lots of features I'd never use. However, your point about hearing them back to back is interesting. Graham, wouldn't the signal passing stages of the Majestic preamp be similar to the full preamp? Mick.
------------- Rega RP8 - Apheta 2 - Accession MC Enigma PS -Solo ULDE (Focal Utopia) - PS Audio M700 - Fical Kanta No2
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 9:23am
I thought that the pre-amp development was including the pre-amp stage, rather than just implementing that part of the Majestic?
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 12:47pm
I think you're correct, but I can't imagine Graham would've dumped any old preamp section into the Majestic, is all. My Majestic is doing a cracking job as preamp at the moment. The DAC on its own is well worth the spend, the fact it's out performing a few equally priced stand alone preamps in that job as well is a tremendous bonus. Mick.
------------- Rega RP8 - Apheta 2 - Accession MC Enigma PS -Solo ULDE (Focal Utopia) - PS Audio M700 - Fical Kanta No2
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 2:32pm
As we had a similar thread on the majestic, I am pretty sure that you are correct. I may have misunderstood/misread what Graham wrote on the pre-amp but I think I read that be was looking at the pre-amp stage again.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: apr59
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 3:20pm
Hey Graham
Have you thought about 6moons as a review point? I have contacted Paul Candy one of their reviewers on another unrelated matter. He came across as a very approachable person. Just a thought!
Scotty
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 8:11pm
The sound stage is opening nicely as the amps "burn-in". I replaced my Cardas copper speaker jumpers with some DIY versions using the Van Damme 6mm speaker cable. The idea behind this being that the Spatia cables and links should be on the way to me very soon, so I want to have a like for like comparison.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 6:39pm
Another two days in, and they sound sweet. I wish I had done this years ago.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2014 at 5:33pm
They have now been powered up for a week. I'm not sure they can improve any more, but they sound really good. I am wondering what benefit a proper pre-amplifier could possibly have, as currently I have a soundstage with fantastic dynamics and such clarity it is hard to believe it could get any better.
There are still two potentially limiting factors (three if you include my wallet) in my current choice of using an Arcam Alpha 8R as a pre-amplifier, and apparently my Cyrus CLS70 speakers. However, to my ears, this sound is so murph better than the sound I had two weeks ago. The impulsive just flows effortlessly, it's a real pleasure to listen to.
I wish my friend who visited me in August with a Pink Triangle PIP was still France. I have a feeling that this would be a fantastic combination.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2014 at 9:11pm
I am very pleased for you Kevin and I think they will get even better. My Proprius amps continue to delight me every time I play music through them.
------------- Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2014 at 10:08am
Any further updates, CageyH? Another three weeks in, I wonder if anything has changed. Mick.
------------- Rega RP8 - Apheta 2 - Accession MC Enigma PS -Solo ULDE (Focal Utopia) - PS Audio M700 - Fical Kanta No2
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2014 at 10:46am
Apart from my gobbledegook reply (blames apple autocorrect) things have changed. The soundstage seems to be more 3 dimensional. The amps are superb, and effortlessly drive my speakers with so much detail and punch. These amps are keepers for me. I am very happy with them. The music seems very neutral, with very little (if any) colouration. The bass is exquisite, and it's hard to believe that 26W is able to drive my speakers better than 100W, but they do.
The last week or so, I have been playing around with speaker cables, so I have not had much chance to sit and listen to the system in a "stable" format, but I need to send the loan Spatia back soon. I think I'll miss them.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2014 at 1:21pm
I've a pair arriving Monday or Tuesday, completing a tidy little system of GSP Audio gear. Reflex M, Majestic DAC, Proprii and Lautus/Libran cables. Just need the dollars for a run of Spatia and I'm there. I've always been attracted to one make systems, as they've generally outperformed the mix'n'match ones I've heard. Having said that, perhaps I've only heard poorly matched examples. My Majestic is sounding fabulous now, after six weeks or so. I had a loan pair of Proprii in and, well, they showed me just how ageing my Arcam Alpha 9 is. It's been an amazing journey of discovery and wouldn't gave been possible without the loan system (shout out to Keith who runs the Aussie program) and the utterly brilliant service and support from Graham and John. Mick.
------------- Rega RP8 - Apheta 2 - Accession MC Enigma PS -Solo ULDE (Focal Utopia) - PS Audio M700 - Fical Kanta No2
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 10:44pm
I am currently using the Proprius for a very unusual purpose; for driving high impedance headphones and inefficient earspeakers. I feel the need to reassure others of the excellence of these monoblocks. Very musical, plentiful power available, a dynamic and immersive sound that gives me significant enjoyment. They are powered by adapters that give out a very VERY quiet high frequency noise that my young ears can faintly hear in my quiet room but this noise rapidly vanishes with some power on time (or maybe I just get used to it being there and stop hearing it?) Anyway, it's nothing intrusive. With my HD540II, I put the volume dial of each Proprius at about 8 o'clock and for my K1000, I typically put the dials at 3 o'clock. For these headphones, these dial positions provide an absence of any audible background hiss, to my ears. If I go much over these positions, I can begin to hear some faint background hiss when wearing the device. This isn't a criticism though, just an observation. Any further volume adjustment is done from my Bitzie, which is completely quiet over the full rotation. These monoblocks are intended for use with loudspeakers but are quiet enough and pure enough to perform superbly with some hard-to-drive headphones. Very happy with these and I look forward to many more hours of fantastic music with them. Thank you Graham Slee. 
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 2:54am
Very interesting, Ash. And it's amazing how much headphones can differ in ease of drive. My Proprii are driving a crossoverless midrange speaker that uses mechanical roll off. Pure and transparent. Also tried them briefly with a pair of Mission 781 stand mounters and a floor standing PMC. Drove all of them with ease and tons of headroom. Impressive indeed. Mick.
------------- Rega RP8 - Apheta 2 - Accession MC Enigma PS -Solo ULDE (Focal Utopia) - PS Audio M700 - Fical Kanta No2
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 10:29am
I've been wanting to treat speakers and headphones similarly for quite a long time. I know that they typically have different needs but they have a lot in common as well and I was curious about having one amplifier for all of my devices, to save space and money. I am pleasantly surprised with how my 300 Ohm headphones sound when I wire them to the Proprius. Even though there is no PSU1, which you would assume rather essential for getting the purest performance from these headphones, as long as the Proprius dials are in a suitable place for the load, the background is dead quiet; no underlying hiss at all to my ears. I don't hear any power supply noise either... Should there be?
I only use inefficient headphones which seem to be a suitable load for the Proprius. I've tried turning the Proprius out of circuit with my AKG K1000 but I hear quiet hiss in them whether the speakers are opened or closed on my head. So I park the dial at 3 o'clock instead and the background is dead quiet. With the HD800, I put the Proprius dials at 9 o'clock maximum as above this, I begin to hear hiss in them. I try 8 o'clock to keep them dead quiet; the dial same position as what I use for HD540 and HD560. I'm not sure how well a headphone with nominal impedance lower than 300 Ohms would perform with the Proprius. Hiss would probably be present in lower impedance cans over most of the rotation allowance. The Proprius is calibrated for larger loads.
Graham designed the Solo ULDE especially for a range of headphones of very differing characteristics. I can confirm that the AKG K1000 can be driven fully (IMO) from Solo if the preamp (Bitzie) gain and Solo gain are set almost at their maximums. It's a close call... If I sell my Proprius though, I will lose the freedom to experiment with speakers of many kinds. Therefore, as the Proprius seems to give my 300 Ohm headphones exactly the same as what the Solo ULDE does, I will sell the Solo instead. That leaves me with a pair of monoblock amplifiers for headphones and speakers, a portable DAC/amp and then I will get the Majestic for a main digital interface.
I was comparing Proprius output and Solo ULDE output side-by-side last night using the dual analogue outputs on the front of the Bitzie. I used a particular headphone model for a while, I set the Proprius and Solo dials so that the resulting volumes from each were at the same level then adjusted volume for both from Bitzie during listening. I felt that HD540II, HD560II, HD800 and K1000 all sounded equally good from either whenever I quickly switched amplifier. Couldn't tell a difference; one didn't seem purer than the other. 
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: marshmid
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 1:19pm
I have just finished watching your video comparison on the HD540II, HD560II, HD800 and AKG K1000. Well done, I enjoyed it.
What you write in your conclusion to your post above is grammatically accurate but from a quick read could be misconstrued as saying all the headphones sound the same!
So just to emphasise you are saying that you couldn't distinguish between the output from the Majestic or Solo ULDE using the above headphones.
Marsh
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 8:09pm
Hi Marsh,
I don't have a Majestic just yet but it's on my "to-buy" list. I was comparing Proprius monoblocks against Solo ULDE, both from Bitzie and each driving high impedance Sennheisers or a K1000. I didn't mean it to sound that I feel all the headphones sound alike; they don't. What I mean is that if I select one headphone and try it from Solo ULDE then try that same headphone from Proprius, I can't tell which combo sounds better. Solo ULDE wasn't purer. Maybe I should keep both setups powered up for several days before I rush to conclude that I should sell my Solo ULDE??
Both setups further emphasized both the excellence and failure of the HD800. Excellent scale and neutrality but a slightly out of phase presentation resulting in dull musicality. The HD800, compared to my HD540II, has more realistic bass quantity/impact, larger stereo image (same spatiality but you can clearly hear that the sound source is larger), enhanced magnification of the smallest microdetails and a fractionally purer upper midrange projection. My preference is for the HD540II, especially when you drive them from a Graham Slee amplifier although some may prefer the HD800 for the strengths they offer. There is no doubt in my mind though that the K1000 decimates all of them (IMO of course). It is my favourite for enjoying music.
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: marshmid
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 8:41pm
Sorry Ash,
Of course, it was the Proprius and Solo ULDE.
That's me in the 'naughty corner' again.
Marsh
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 8:51pm
No worries. I have been pleasantly surprised with how quiet the Proprius are with my 300 Ohm headphones. I guess it's a sensitivity v.s impedance thing?? The Proprius would likely be unsuitable for driving high sensitivity / low impedance headphones but I'm not the expert here; Graham is. I wonder if he has tried his HD250II from Proprius...
With my 300 Ohm Senns, the Solo ULDE seems to offer no sonic advantage over the Proprius. Doesn't seem to be any more or less resolving; the monoblocks just have more power available for driving speakers which is why I shouldn't part with them...
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2014 at 11:11pm
The specs show the Proprius amps drive 4 ohms as well as 8, and they have no trouble putting more current through the lower impedance points in any of my speakers. They sound great at any volume short of madness. I expected that but it's remarkable that they can drive 300 ohm headphones just as well as 4 or 8 ohm loudspeakers.
------------- Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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