Genera?
Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: DIY AUDIO
Forum Name: DIY Audio questions and answers
Forum Description: www.diy-audio-kits.com ... superb audio kits for experienced constructors
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1797
Printed Date: 27 Mar 2026 at 3:31am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Genera?
Posted By: ICL1P
Subject: Genera?
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2013 at 10:11pm
I have absolutely no known PCB soldering and kit building skills. How easy is it to acquire them? ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Graham Slee wrote:Replies:
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2013 at 10:46pm
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There are video tutorials on youtube and practice improves your basic technique quite quickly. Once mastered you can build kits and make decent DIY interconnects.It's something I've done off and on for nearly 40 years so I may not be the best person to comment on how easily you can acquire the skills, can anyone else share recent expereince on this? ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2013 at 10:59pm
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Some simple tools, screwdrivers, small side cutters (wire cutters), a good smallish soldering iron (Antex 25watt or similar), flux and of course solder. First a little practice is needed, plenty of you-tube videos give guidance then hands on practice, a simple Velleman kit might provide this. Meanwhile order a Genera kit. Then, when it arrives, if you read the instructions, read them again and carefully follow the build instructions you'll have a Genera. Go on, give it a try, you'll enjoy it.... Any problems, there's plenty of us willl help. Ian |
Posted By: iamalexis
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2013 at 11:02pm
I didn't either but I built the Novo headphone amp kit and the Genera kit having only soldered leads before. I tried out a few cheap kits first from a well known high street electronics shop to get my skills dialled in! Graham's kits have clear instructions, photos and all the components you need. I found it good fun and not too difficult! Give it a go, they sound great too! |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2013 at 7:47pm
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Hi guys, thanks for the advice and encouragement. I'll start checking out YouTube and will get some cheap kits to practice on. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 5:40pm
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I am currently building my first ever Velleman kit. My eyesight is rubbish so it's proving to be quite a challenge. I've only burnt myself once so far. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 5:45pm
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Get yourself a magnify glass on a stand, in fact if you are going to be doing anything with cables or connectors a then desk clamp with magnify glass could be useful.
------------- Steve ------------- Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 5:58pm
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I think it will be essential. Thanks. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 6:12pm
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I use one like this - not exactly the same, but you get the idea - lens is 5" in diameter and there is a circular light tube surrounding it.
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Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 6:42pm
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Thanks. I'll hunt one out. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: mitch65
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 6:49pm
This has got me tempted to build a headphone amp so I'm watching with interest  ------------- Greg Rega Planer 3 Gram Amp 2 Audiolab 8000A Auralic Aries Mini Russell K 50 |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 7:01pm
Well, I can report that my kitchen timer does not work. I'm not very surprised to be honest. I'll see if I can sort it tomorrow. It hasn't put me off though. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: mitch65
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 7:06pm
If we haven't heard from you by tomorrow night we'll send a search party out  ------------- Greg Rega Planer 3 Gram Amp 2 Audiolab 8000A Auralic Aries Mini Russell K 50 |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 7:42pm
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I find it essential these days to have good lighting for most intricate jobs, I keep promising to buy myself an illuminated magnifying glass instead of the anglepoise and handheld magnifying glass. A jewellers loupe is also useful for checking for dry joints and solder bridges. If it doesn't work check component polarities as well as dry joints and solder bridges. Good Luck Ian |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 8:10pm
Just don't let the magic smoke out - very difficult to get it back in (voice of experience) 
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Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 8:18pm
| Ah Yes, if you let the smoke out it'll never work. Never succeeded in catching it, let alone putting it back in. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 8:56am
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My best guess is solder bridges, but until I get a magnifying glass, which may not be today, I won't be certain. How does one rectify a solder bridge? What size and shape of tip is best for PCB work? ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 9:52am
I think you will find desolder braid/wick quite useful. You tin the iron and heat the joint with the braid on top of it and the excess solder is wicked into the braid. See this one: http://cpc.farnell.com/chemtronics/60-4-5/2-8mm-soder-wick-desoldering-braid/dp/SD00326 Sometimes solder doesn't like to reflow - you can get it to happen using copious amounts of this: http://cpc.farnell.com/chemtronics/cw8100/no-clean-flux-dispensing-pen/dp/SA00859 But clean the stuff off with Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA) and a brush and mop up well. I use a 2.4mm sloped tip on a 60 watt mains Weller iron for everything I do including this...  Try watching this... And take a look around here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_gammell/sets/72157623863571447/ and here: http://solderingtraining.com/gallery.php (the video takes a while to load) ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 11:18am
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Wow! Thank you Graham. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 1:58pm
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Like I said, I use a 2.4mm sloped tip. It looks similar to the one at the start of the video above. For soldering component leads I rotate the iron so the flat is touching the lead and the reverse side is on the pad. This relies on good tinning/wetting of the iron's bit. The video shows the use of leaded solder. I'm able to tell because it flows so easily. It also results in a gleaming shine. I'm not allowed to use leaded solder and therefore it is much harder to get it to flow. What the guy shows in the video taking one sweep of the iron simply doesn't happen with unleaded. Tin by itself becomes more brittle as it's heated and when molten it isn't very plastic. It needs aggressive fluxes in copious amounts to make it work. Lead is a very plastic metal at all temperatures and the ideal 'mate' for tin. Hence you can get 60/40 tin/lead solder which is great to work with. However, the World Health Organisation says Lead when found in the water supply causes cancer and other similar nasties in infants. So the EU banned Leaded solders for manufacturing use. Right now infants in Syria are dying from cancer due to Lead (and other heavy metals) from spent ordnance being deposited in drinking water... So the EU stands back and lets it happen... Bloody hypocrites! ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 4:22pm
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A couple of thoughts following from Graham's rather thorough treatment; A flux pen (Jaycar or the like) is handy for reflowing joints and desoldering/removing excess solder. Leaded solder is legal for hobbyists and much easier to use, 60/40 is easiest to find but eutectic 63/37 is better for avoiding "dry joints" caused by part movement during cooling. My personal choice is Cardas Quad Eutectic (from Hificollective) not cheap but 100gm lasts a long while - the extra additives should reduce the possibility of embrittlement of joints to gold flashed or silver plated surfaces such as phono sockets and plugs, nice to use too. More heat is better than less heat, with too little the joint takes too long to reach temperature as heat travels away from the join area into adjacent components, increasing collateral damage as well as frustration. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 4:58pm
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Hi tg, in the UK the equivalent is Multicore LMP made for exactly the same purpose and 62/36/2 tin/lead/silver. I used to use it before being forced to use lead-free. It's £21.77 inc VAT for 250g from CPC. Part number SD00061 ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 7:34pm
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Well, I've failed to rectify my kitchen timer. I almost certainly fitted some LEDs the wrong way round having not noticed that polarity matters. Whether or not it would have worked otherwise I don't know. I purchased a magnifying glass and clamps at Maplins and this evening I've been working on a Velleman FM radio. It's not finished yet. There's no doubt that my soldering is rubbish, but I think I might be getting better. I certainly would not have the skill and confidence to build a Genera yet! ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 12:01pm
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When I started my soldering was rubbish too . . . But I was only ten. We all have to start somewhere no matter how old we are when we start. Practice makes perfect! ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 12:11pm
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The cost of practicing has already been called into question by SWMBO; "If it's only about an extra £100 to buy one fully built, is it worth it"? ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Humboldt
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 12:16pm
| I did some soldering about 30+ years ago in school. Last year I built a power-amplifier myself, and picked up soldering again. After some initial exercise it was no problem. It is important however to understand the basic principles, which can be picked up at the internet. Read first, and then practice. In my experience it helps a lot to have a soldering station, i e a temperature regulated soldering iron, and it is very important to keep the iron clean. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 12:17pm
It all depends on what you want to do in life. If you want to master a craft like soldering it is worth it. If it's simply to save money then SWMBO is always right . . . ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Humboldt
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 12:19pm
It is very rewarding for the ego ;-) What I mean is, I think it is satisfying for the inner self to have something that is crafted by yourself. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 12:45pm
------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 5:23pm
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Practice makes perfect. Perhaps a strip of veroboard and a lucky bag of components would give a lot of bits to practice just soldering skills on, although without a finished circuit to verify success. |
Posted By: JamesD
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 5:44pm
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A bit like learning how to ride a bike or how to control the clutch in a manual car... once you've become proficient it's difficult to make a bad job unless you're having a bad day Didn't stop me making a mess of soldering on a 2.5mm square 8 pin surface mount chip the other day though (on a prototype board), happy to say I got it mastered in the end, thanks to a "doctored" soldering iron tip
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 6:28pm
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The joy of DIY. I feel I may be repeating here but I enjoy making something that works well. Soldering is straight forward once you understand the basic technique and practice it. I find lead-free solder hard work for tinning a prepared wire or making a good junction, but some extra flux helps. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: JamesD
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 6:39pm
The joys of lead free... 
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Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 7:08pm
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I certainly won't attempt lead free. I'm away until the w/e so I won't know whether or not I've successfully built an FM radio until then. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2013 at 7:07pm
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Damn!!! ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2013 at 7:31pm
You wouldn't happen to be making an FM radio circuit using an LM324N (quad op-amp) integrated circuit, by any chance, would you? I remember when I tried to build such a circuit a few years ago but was never able to tune into a radio station properly... 
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: mitch65
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2013 at 7:37pm
I didn't like to ask  ------------- Greg Rega Planer 3 Gram Amp 2 Audiolab 8000A Auralic Aries Mini Russell K 50 |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2013 at 8:20pm
| Some small problems then? |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2013 at 10:04pm
------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2013 at 10:09pm
Maybe I should just get a Gram Amp 2 SE and be done with it, but I really would like to build the Genera. How does the GS2SE compare with the Genera? ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2013 at 11:06pm
What difficulties are you experiencing? Component placings? Soldering? Are you following a circuit schematic and translating it to a PCB?  I remember back to when I made some of my own PCB designs for A-level Systems & Control. It was always easy to make one silly little mistake that stops your whole circuit from operating. ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 12:06am
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It's a simple kit. The only thing that can be wrong is the soldering. If I could see as well as I did when I was your age it would probably be OK. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 12:21am
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No diodes, LEDs or IC sockets that could be reversed ? The G2SE doesn't have that "look what I done mum" about it |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 7:43am
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Some photos might help in identifying the problem. I'm sure that it can be resolved with a little input from forum members. we'd all like to see you succeed. The Genera is well laid out and really not too complicated or fiddly. Graham's build guide and technical explanations are also very good. 
|
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 9:30am
The layout of the Genera does look simple enough. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 10:37am
 ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: mitch65
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 10:57am
Don't beat yourself up Ifor, that looks just like my soldering, just keep practicing  ------------- Greg Rega Planer 3 Gram Amp 2 Audiolab 8000A Auralic Aries Mini Russell K 50 |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 10:58am
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I've seen much worse! First observations, there may be some dry joints evidenced by the hole in the pcb still being visible, there should be a nice cone of solder around each lead with the base of the cone sat neatly on the pcb pad. I also suspect there may be some solder bridges, towards the top right 4th pad left of the larger hole at the edge. I try not to bend the component leads too much to hold them in the pcb before soldering. The build sequence of starting with smallest components working through to the largest and supporting the pcb on either firm foam or several layers of soft cotton fabric (my preference) helps to keep the components in place whilst soldering without cinching the leads. This helps in that you can cut the leads cleanly as they are perpendicular to the pcb and don't tend to encourage bridges of solder or stray leads. A little rework on the more obvious dry joints and careful removal of the longer bent over leads might achieve a result. Best Ian |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 11:17am
Greg & Ian, thanks for your encouragement. I will attempt a rework when I am allowed the time.
------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 5:24pm
Right then my friend. Time to give you a few simple tips about soldering to get you practising effectively. 1. Less is more. In other words, aim to use the least amount of solder required to create a small conical joint on the metal pad. This will help to reduce the chance of creating solder "bridges" (short circuits) between tracks/pads that are very close together and it will also cause you to use less of your stock solder, therefore saving you money. 2. After you have produced a solder join, "wiggle" the joint between your fingers gently to check its integrity. "Dry joints" are typically those that attach component to PCB via the flux instead of the solder. By wiggling the completed joint, it should feel firm and should not have any sign of being brittle. 3. Use the soldering iron to heat up the area to be soldered first, before (at the same time as) applying the solder to the area. In other words, equilibrate the pad temperature with that of the soldering iron. This will help the solder to flow around the pad easily as it will stay molten whilst it is transferring across metal surfaces. A relatively cool pad will not encourage the solder to adhere to it as it will solidify promptly instead. 4. Less time is better. In other words, never keep the soldering iron in contact with the pad for too long when trying to make a joint. Heat conducts rapidly into the respective electronic component and may either damage it or burn it out completely. This is very important with silicon-based components such as transistors and integrated circuits, as they are easily destroyed by heat. Also, with reworking, too much time in contact with a soldering iron may cause metal pads to break away from the PCB! If that happens, you'll have nothing to bind the component's leg to... 5. Ensure a metal area is clean before applying solder to it. Also ensure the soldering iron itself has clean, shiny tip before starting. By "shiny", I mean prime the tip with some solder to start with. Melt some solder onto the iron's tip and then wipe the tip on a small piece of clean,damp tissue paper. This will smear solder over the whole tip (Is this termed "tinning"??) and remove inpurities from the tip surface. Remember that inpurities affect solder flow so wipe the iron on the damp tissue regularly to keep it working efficiently. ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 7:25pm
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As Ash did A-level I'm not going to add to his list of hints and tips. Sometimes it's good to have a young set of trained eyes on the case. However, if I can stop you worrying about over-heating stuff for a moment.... to get your skills right, then get some flux pen liquid on and around those dodgy looking joints and 'reflow' them with a cleanly tinned and wiped hot iron. Reflow each joint that looks dodgy or like a blob, wiping the excess off your iron onto a wetted sponge... the sponge should by dripping wet with water. This is a section of your board blown up and tweaked a bit...  Can you see some component leads that are not trimmed back? They can short onto each other causing the circuit not to work. They may not have blown anything, but you'll only know if you clip them back. You need some small electronics side cutters and cut the wire just above the joint. The most important thing is getting the solder to flow and both pieces (wire and solder pad) need to be hot and at the same temperature for this. Also, in getting the solder to flow properly it will unstick itself from whatever it's bridging onto. When you make your soldered joint it uses up all the flux in the cored solder. To reheat it requires more flux, and that's where the flux pen comes in. Pump the flux pen until the liquid flux floods the area - it will then reflow. Scrub up the residues using a toothbrush and copious amounts of fresh IPA (Isopropyl Alcohol) - scrub well between pads. Get anything that will soak up water back off the board (eg the speaker) and rinse the mucky IPA off the board with running tap water and then dab dry with kitchen roll and then allow to dry. Chips, capacitors, resistors and most connectors are washable, and so is the board. That's how manufacturers make stuff. ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 8:04pm
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Thank you. I'll get a flux pen. I'll be out of solder soon. I've been using 0.5 mm; what do you recommend? ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 9:36am
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I use 0.7 and 0.9.
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 2:23pm
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My plan for the Genera, when / if I build it is for it to partner my newly acquired Technics SL-7. Since getting the SL-7 it has been sharing my Reflex M with my Manticore Mantra. Switching between the two TTs is a real pain because the plugs on the end of the Mantra's RB 301 tonearm are so tight fitting on Reflex. Worring that I'm going to do some damage I decided to connect the SL-7 to the phono stage of my Roksan Kandy amp and dedicate the Reflex to the Mantra. So far I've listened to just one album on the SL-7 through the Kandy. What a disappointment! I remember why I fell in love with the Reflex M. If only finances could stretch to a second! ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 9:33pm
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Thanks for sharing your soldering pains. I wrote some tips on soldering and then realised they'd all been covered already by helpful forum members. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 10:50pm
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I have a suggestion for ensuring no short-circuits will exist between tracks/pads that are very close together, although it is a bit of a crude method. Still, it's worth a brief mention if you don't have access to a flux pen device. Anyway, back when I did A-level and produced my PCBs (the type made by UV illumination and etching using ferric chloride), I sometimes used the sharp tip of a geometry compass to chip away solid flux from the PCB surface (which was a white surface, in my case). The flux generated through soldering sometimes made the boards look messy and obscured possible solder bridging. Very small particles of solder were sometimes amongst this flux debris and also present at undesired places on the tracks. I always found a compass tip a great tool for clearing around tracks and pads to verify that they are indeed kept separate. Just apply enough pressure with the compass to tidy up, not to gash the PCB surface too much. Anyway, this is just a suggestion and I'm far from a professional solder guy. Try it if you think it may help in certain situations. ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2013 at 9:00pm
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I've had another little play, paying attention to some of the advice received. I've definitely made some improvements and will have another go soon, but I don't think this FM radio will ever work. I'll use it for a bit more practice before trying another kit. If the next one works out OK I think I'll be placing my order for a Genera. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2013 at 9:13pm
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Thanks Ifor. Practice and patience will pay off. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2013 at 10:46pm
Glad to hear that you're making progress. Genera next stop? Ian |
Posted By: Sounder 905
Date Posted: 14 May 2013 at 8:00am
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Hello all once again! Just like to chime in on my experiences building and owning the Genera. Hi Ifor, my take is that as others have said it's totally worth it. From the DIY experience, to the learning process of soldering and Hi-fi audio design, and finally the sound. As this was my first ever full on soldering job it took me quite a bit of effort to get it done. That is, aside from the occasional changing of a guitar pickup or input jack repair (back then I was horrible at it and didn't even know about tinning and still can't believe the guitar works). To get it done, I did rely upon the hobbyist's standard 60/40 rosin core leaded type as well as a 25 W Weller iron, the orange ones. They work but they're finicky and like to overheat if you're not almost constantly using it or switching it off between (solder) joints. I needed to do my homework just to get ready and 3 days to get through it, didn't help that I did it during the coldest week of the year. The apartment where I live has windows on one side only so I had to open it and use a table fan to blow air in the direction of the window. So that's the only 'proper' advice I can add at this point, proper ventilation. Ended up with chapped hands at the end of it. Also had my handy resistor color-code & electronic schematics guide to help double or even triple check the resistors & at the very end when I wasn't sure about the diode placement direction. Ended up not needing my spare flux, or four-piece accessory kit which includes a brush/scraper that seems the same as the De-soldering braid Graham recommended, the vacuum De-soldering tool never worked for me. When I do need 'em though I'll check this thread as there's been a lot of useful advice given. Judging by your commitment to the radio and other kits I'd certainly not doubt your diligence and ability as a factor in if or when you ever decide to order a Genera. As to the sound? well as it's my first discrete (in the stand-alone, not op-amp vs 'discrete' sense) analog-only phono stage I'll honestly say I've never heard better. Then again I can only compare it to the various phono outs of stereo receivers or a lifeless sounding USB phono/tape selectable soundcard with built-in A/D. But if you have two TT's and want a secondary or backup MM phono stage, the Genera's a good choice. If you already have a Reflex or Era Gold w/PSU1 on hand then I guess the Genera can do double duty as well, since the PSU1 and 'green' each offer two 'sound-signatures' to my ears. My AT-LP120 retrofitted with a 440mla cartridge sounds at it's most clear, crisp, and revealing to me with more extended high end brought out from the PSU1. To me it's the most 'reference-grade' sound my TT setup has ever sounded. Lately though I've been listening more with the 'green' as vinyl archival can be quite a time consuming ordeal as well as it own ongoing albeit rewarding learning process. I was also missing out on using my Solo with the PSU1 which didn't bother me for a while as recordings made with my 'juiced up' Genera sound better than I've ever done before. In contrast to the above mentioned qualities of the Genera + PSU1, the lesser 'green' is a little less crisp & crystal clear sounding, more of a wet darker sound. The 440mla is a bright cartridge to begin with and coupled with it's CD like presentation, can be a tad brash at it's worst on some recordings. The 'green' I'm finding actually tones it down a bit and can serve as an smoothing elixir for the 440mla's brashness and still brings out the musicality in my records. The ride cymbals still have their high energy and the bell has more of a smoother gloss to it, hence the wet description. Well at least on a worn copy of Deep Purple's Stormbringer it does! Coming from the PSU1 immediately though it can sound slightly dampened in contrast and here it came to mind where Graham wrote about it's design; bringing out the airiness of wind instruments and not strongly emphasizing the leading sharp transients in the audio. Fascinating stuff really and I'm finding the Genera needs time to break in & it's sound with the 'green' a slow grower. Well, got carried away again. Hope someone got something resembling sanity out of that. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 14 May 2013 at 8:14am
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Steven, thanks for your comments and encouragement. I'm sure I will do it, but unfortunately I'm struggling to find the time at present; too many conflicting priorities of which some have to be done and other, more fun things, don't. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 20 May 2013 at 9:33pm
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Another little practice this evening. Definitely getting better .... I think. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 20 May 2013 at 11:09pm
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You'll be glad you did it. Lots of little repairs you'll be able to do and the DAK Genera beckons... ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: mitch65
Date Posted: 21 May 2013 at 7:32am
I'm relying on your success Ifor just to give me hope ------------- Greg Rega Planer 3 Gram Amp 2 Audiolab 8000A Auralic Aries Mini Russell K 50 |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 21 May 2013 at 7:37am
------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: mitch65
Date Posted: 21 May 2013 at 2:34pm
only the pressure you put on yourself.... ------------- Greg Rega Planer 3 Gram Amp 2 Audiolab 8000A Auralic Aries Mini Russell K 50 |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2014 at 1:09pm
Got it! ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2014 at 1:30pm
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Good Luck and enjoy both the build process and the sound. ------------- Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2014 at 2:01pm
Thanks Ian. Fingers crossed! ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2014 at 5:54am
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More music from little boxes - topped off with the heady scent of hot solder (and hopefully accompanied by a smug smile of self-satisfaction) Good luck with it Ifor, measure twice and cut once. ------------- Tony G |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2014 at 8:55am
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Thanks Tony. I'm still plucking up courage to start and I need "the boy" out of the house. I can't have him walking in on me building/destroying his Christmas present. We might start building his Frugel Horns today. His birthday was last week. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2014 at 12:58pm
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The boy sounds like a lucky lad! ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2014 at 4:24pm
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Not if he's made to stand outside whilst Ifor builds his present, ho-ho-ho! ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 1:31pm
Well I've started and it's not good! Out of the first 8 solders 5 are good and 3 are not. I don't know how easy it will be to see in this photo, but a reminder of how to recover these duff ones would be much appreciated. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 2:10pm
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Hi Ifor, It looks as though the solder isn't flowing Could be several things. Is the the board clean? A wipe over with a clean cotton cloth, preferably dampened with isopropyl alcohol or pcb cleaner (Maplin N64AN) will help. Is it lead free solder, hopefully not as it needs a hotter iron and eats the tip away? A good tin/lead/flux multicore is the best/easiest to use. An application of flux would also make things easier, again Maplin sell flux pens (N63AA); this should be applied to the wire and pcb when the components have been inserted. Is the iron tip clean and bright? A few wipes on a wetted sponge usually keeps it lean and removes excess solder. Don't be tempted to lean the tip with any abrasive as it will remove the coating and ruin the tip. What size is the tip? The soldering iron tip should be held firmly against the wire and pcb track, then apply solder, it should flow around the wire and flood the pcb track, then draw the tip of the iron up the wire away from the board, this should leave nice neat joint. I usuall insert several similar size components, ie diodes and resistors, bending thes wire a little to hold them in place, then lay the board component side down onto a folded cotton cloth which holds the components firmly in place against the board. Might have stated the obvious, hope it helps. Any specific questions just give me a shout. Flux and pcb cleaner are also available from CPC and Farnell, slightly cheaper but minimum charges apply with Farnell or £2.95 for 1st class delivery from CPC, otherwise free for 2nd class mail. ------------- Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 2:16pm
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Thanks Ian. I'll report back when I've had another window of opportunity to try again. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 6:56pm
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Maybe I'm being a little picky here but I'm surprised that the tracks and pads of the board aren't larger. This would probably make soldering and reworking easier. Back at college when I made PCBs for my own circuits, I was advised to maximise the pad/track area as much as possible, even adding metal areas at empty parts of the board in order to save chemical during the development process. (I guess GSP uses a different development process) Anyway, heat the metal surface briefly before applying the solder. A good solder joint will have a bit of a shine. If there is grease covering the metal surface, this will hinder the binding. I also found the sharp tip of a compass useful checking that close tracks/pads are not bridging. ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 7:42pm
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My tip FWIW - get some Cardas Quad Eutectic (not Tri Eutectic) solder. Getting a bit pricey but worth it IMO. Otherwise Ians tip of common leaded solder with resin core will make it easier to get a good joint, but a eutectic is better. ------------- Tony G |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 7:54pm
Rescued. Thanks Ian. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 8:23pm
Ash, I'm delighted to know your college has absolutely no idea. Not only does GSP do things differently, so did Cable & Wireless, the BBC, Siemens etc... And possibly several others committed to fast single sided PCB circuitry  (Or did my resume pass you by?) I suppose when in doubt the colleges copy what they can cheaply get hold of... (Chinese circuit boards) Tags: Grandmother, teach, eggs, suck!!! ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 8:38pm
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I'm really struggling to read the resistor codes. e.g I'm looking at a pair now which i think are red, red, black, silver. My iPhone app tells me that it is 22 ohm, but there are no 22 ohm resistors in the parts list. Now i'm looking at a pair of orange, orange, black, orange, but according to my app no such value exists. It's a worry! ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 8:53pm
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Red, red, black, silver = 2R2 (2.2 Ohms) R13, R14 (top right of instructions photo) Orange, orange, black, orange = 330k (330,000 Ohms) R2A, R2B (near middle) Your app seems to be crap Try: http://www.1728.org/resisclr.htm - http://www.1728.org/resisclr.htm And: http://www.digikey.com/~/media/Images/Marketing/Resources/Calculators/resistor-color-chart.jpg - http://www.digikey.com/~/media/Images/Marketing/Resources/Calculators/resistor-color-chart.jpg Graham ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 9:01pm
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Ifor, For inspiration go to: http://www.solderingtraining.com/gallery.php - http://www.solderingtraining.com/gallery.php (see video) For Ash: See 'our different development process'? ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 9:04pm
Good news, well done. I would agree with tg's recommendation for an eutectic solder, however my preference has always been "Ersin Savbit Multicore" which has a good balance of ease of use, performance and clean to use. ------------- Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it. |
Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 9:09pm
Save yourself the pain and get a DMM |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 9:23pm
Tin the iron. Wipe the iron on a wet sponge (it should have come with one). Tin the iron again. Place on suspect joint. Add tiniest amount of solder. Watch it flow round the pad and up the lead. Remove iron. Using 60/40 tin/lead flux cored solder (you are, aren't you?), which is near enough Eutectic not to worry about, the solder flows. Wipe tip regularly, and re-tin regularly. Don't use lead-free solder! We have to - it doesn't flow out! (actually, we can get it to flow because we buy the sort with a particular flux core - but that's beside the point) In the video I referred to earlier they use 60/40. It's simply down to practice - YOU CAN DO IT! ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 9:29pm
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Thanks Graham, I've now found a good app. I studied the soldering videos a while ago. They're very good. My problems are eyesight and a not too steady hand, but I think I'll be OK. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 9:44pm
In looking up the resistor values note that they are 5 band values, not four, tha 5th band indicates the tolerance. ------------- Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 9:47pm
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The original app I was using only had 4 bands. The one I have now allows switching to 5 bands and so gives the correct results. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 10:05pm
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Re the not too steady hands, if your iron is small enough to hold more or less like you would a pencil, it should be possible to rest your hand on the bench while soldering. Just a thought, perhaps you are doing that already. ------------- Tony G |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 10:34pm
A good thought Tony, but unfortunately it's not. Maybe worth think about if I get the bug to do more. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 11:43pm
Well, you know about my two pairs of specs... I am known around here as specky six eyes And as far as shakey hands, they used to joke about it - and that was before I turned 40.  Tip: We do all our fine surface-mount soldering, and just about everything else using 60 watt Weller mains irons and 1/10th inch tips. They keep their temperature better. ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2014 at 12:25am
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So without reading any further, perhaps the pads/tracks have been kept slim for an important reason?? Maybe minimizes EMI on the board? I wasn't trying to be overly critical, just felt that it seemed a bit counter-intuitive to what I was once taught. Photo-chemical development is the only process that I am familiar with. It would be interesting to know of improved methods. ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2014 at 1:50am
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Hi Ash, I was personally involved in the manufacture of somewhere in the region of 100,000 printed circuit boards over a 7 year period, and taught a department who did lots of prestige projects for BBC World Services, and independent TV companies, how to do the same. I designed boards for the companies mentioned earlier and a whole lot more. I worked with printed circuit production equipment companies to develop electronic control systems for machines that made printed circuit boards. In the process of doing that I worked onsite at places like GEC Stafford, and Oxy Metals (electro-platers to the big money car manufacturers). I even worked on college prototyping kit manufacture (in the 80s). I had 2600 square feet of my own manufacturing plant. I (my staff at the time) assembled printed circuits and sub-assemblies in warden-call, nurse-call, fire evacuation, machine control, auto-dialers etc. I had conveyorised and CNC machinery. I had the full works in photomechanical prep, gallery camera, developing machines, screen making. And I still have a collection of sample boards in my shed. Just because Chinese producers like to spend a fortune on etch resist ink and strippers, whilst saving pennies on ferric or amonical etchant is their problem!!! (and yours) And whilst you're here watch the boards on http://www.solderingtraining.com/gallery.php - http://www.solderingtraining.com/gallery.php because compared to you, the entire industry got it wrong! Question: What is two pieces of copper with minimal distance between them? A capacitor! Do conductors have a magnetic field surrounding them? Yes! When you group lots of them together in close proximity, what do you get? Lots of crosstalk! Do you think the expensive analytical lab gear pictured here is for show, or a lifestyle choice, or a hobby, or to make us look good?  Education? Bollocks more like! ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2014 at 9:46am
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So the larger the tracks/pads are, the larger the magnetic field radii and the higher the overlapping forces per unit area, which will generate further undesired currents. A lot of complacency exists in education systems, even at university. ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2014 at 11:12am
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Ash, think of it this way - can they afford to pay the real experts? ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2014 at 1:16pm
No  ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2014 at 2:26pm
Still struggling to tell the difference between different, or not so different, colours. Can anyone read this one for me? By process of elimination I think I know where they go, but if I've read any others wrongly i could have a problem! ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2014 at 2:41pm
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Grey, Red, Black, Brown = 8 2 0-noughts 0 = 820 Ohms... R10 A and B I reckon. However, the photo isn't great so I'm not 100% - possibly 99%... PS. Just took a look at the kit stock, and they are the same.... 820 Ohms (820R) ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2014 at 2:42pm
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If I see the colours correctly - Grey, Red, Black, Black, Green, Red = 820 ohms. SNAP!!! ------------- Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it. |