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Vinyl Sound Signature

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Ash View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 9:35pm
Has anyone produced high quality digital rips of some of their vinyl recordings and done AB blind tests of the direct vinyl reproduction against the digital recording? How significant is the difference?
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miT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote miT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by Ash Ash wrote:

Has anyone produced high quality digital rips of some of their vinyl recordings and done AB blind tests of the direct vinyl reproduction against the digital recording? How significant is the difference?
Just to be difficult, wouldn't it be an unfair comparison if you don't go back to the analogue mastering media? I would presume it to be different going from HD digital to analogue but aren't there a number of atmospheric variables involved in ripping vinyl recordings which could ultimately alter the sound?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patientot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by miT miT wrote:

Originally posted by Ash Ash wrote:

Has anyone produced high quality digital rips of some of their vinyl recordings and done AB blind tests of the direct vinyl reproduction against the digital recording? How significant is the difference?
Just to be difficult, wouldn't it be an unfair comparison if you don't go back to the analogue mastering media? I would presume it to be different going from HD digital to analogue but aren't there a number of atmospheric variables involved in ripping vinyl recordings which could ultimately alter the sound?

Indeed there are. I know a couple of guys that do high-end vinyl rips they share with a small number of people. I also know of a record label that has admitted to me they master from vinyl to create CD reissues where original tapes are no longer available. Even with click removal and noise software and sophisticated devices like the Sugarcube, there is going to be some noise getting through. Try to remove all of it through aggressive NR and you'll end up with a dead, lifeless sound because you are also removing bits of the music.

The issue with vinyl rips, no matter how expensive the gear used to make them is, is that the folks that make these rips usually have systems that are adding some level of sonic coloration to the process. That's before we get to things like record/groove wear, which is often a factor on pre-owned vinyl. 

I'm not saying some of these "vinyl rips" can't be enjoyable to listen to - they can be, but in general I do not prefer them over a good digital mastering where a decent tape source was available and the work was done by a good mastering engineer. The majority of the time they are of historical interest to me only. Exceptions occur where no good CD/digital version exists because of things like overly compressed digital mastering, lost tapes, damaged tapes, etc. 

Odds are if an album is older and a somewhat popular or very popular title that has been released on CD and digitally a number of times, is that somewhere along the line, someone did a good job with the mastering and used a good source tape. That doesn't mean that an LP version might not sound subjectively better to some folks, but if you're not already committed to vinyl you shouldn't worry about it and instead just try to find the best CD/digital version available (for a reasonable price). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lfc jon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2022 at 7:26pm
Today into work a work mate asked me if knew anything about green vinyl as he had been asked the question, It was the first I'd heard of it, I then said you don't mean a green records and he said no these are a more environmentally friendly way of making records, they are made by a Dutch firm apparently. Has anyone heard of this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patientot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2022 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by lfc jon lfc jon wrote:

Today into work a work mate asked me if knew anything about green vinyl as he had been asked the question, It was the first I'd heard of it, I then said you don't mean a green records and he said no these are a more environmentally friendly way of making records, they are made by a Dutch firm apparently. Has anyone heard of this?


In the 60s and 70s some U.S. plants would take old records and grind them up to make new records, paper label and all. Sometimes you'd find one where bits of paper were embedded into groove that were clearly visible. Bad for the stylus and also makes extra noise.

I'm not sure what firm you're referring to but all record pressing plants use some regrind in the vinyl mix or find ways to recycle scrap PVC to a third party.

Where things get dicey is when too much regrind is used and that makes a noisy record. I know of one plant in Scandinavia that grinds up all the edge trim and used records and throws it back into the hopper. Sadly I don't think their records are very good and have a high proportion of defects due to this. I had to try 3 copies of one record from that plant to get one I could even live with.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lfc jon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2022 at 8:34pm
Harm Theunisse, owner of Green Vinyl Records in Eindhoven are making them, they are making them out of Polyethylene therephthalate (Pet) rather than polyvinyl chloride (PVC)
They say , their team has spent the last seven years developing it, but here is the rub they do admit the record will cost more. Apparently the plant is up and running and they do have lebels signed up to make records for them.
Does this mean we will have to call the Pet records rather than Vinyl recordsWink
I wonder how much more they will cost over vinyl, I don't think people will buy Pet records if they cost a lot more, if they can get the same record on vinyl for a lot less, I'd say I would buy if they cost say £1 or £2 more but if it was £5 more then no. Have to wait and see. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patientot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2022 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by lfc jon lfc jon wrote:

Harm Theunisse, owner of Green Vinyl Records in Eindhoven are making them, they are making them out of Polyethylene therephthalate (Pet) rather than polyvinyl chloride (PVC)
They say , their team has spent the last seven years developing it, but here is the rub they do admit the record will cost more. Apparently the plant is up and running and they do have lebels signed up to make records for them.
Does this mean we will have to call the Pet records rather than Vinyl recordsWink
I wonder how much more they will cost over vinyl, I don't think people will buy Pet records if they cost a lot more, if they can get the same record on vinyl for a lot less, I'd say I would buy if they cost say £1 or £2 more but if it was £5 more then no. Have to wait and see. 


Time will tell if it works out. If the records end up noisy or wearing down faster than a regular PVC LP, then there's going to be a problem. More bad records for the landfill.
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