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Upgrade Path - Reflex C Vs. Accession/Elevator EXP

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Richardl60 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richardl60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 2:13pm
Accession MM only? Well graham hopefully still has an Accession MC under development but the current modular option does allow you to go Accession for MM and add the Elevator for MC?

Whilst I do sit in the MC camp, the money saved on an elevator could be Invested elsewhere?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StreamIT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 2:50pm
Thanks Ian.

Sold the MP500 as I never liked the sound, even with the Pellar. However, when I first got the Denon (recommended by Carl at ISOKinetik) my ears certainly pricked up as I thought it was night & day better. Just better separation, detail & staging if that makes sense?

I'm not keen on another pair of interconnects between the TT & EXP (signal path), however, if it sounds better I can live with that.

One thing I forgot to mention is my Pellar is connected to a Yammy AV receiver. However, I've bypassed all the processing (DSP) and gone straight out to the Rotel 2ch power amp. Perhaps I should be looking at something more suited to music like an Anthem receiver perhaps??

Also thinking about the Rega RP10 (with cart) perhaps?

Cheers.


Edited by StreamIT - 05 Jun 2017 at 2:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackinBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by Richardl60 Richardl60 wrote:

Accession MM only? Well graham hopefully still has an Accession MC under development but the current modular option does allow you to go Accession for MM and add the Elevator for MC?

Whilst I do sit in the MC camp, the money saved on an elevator could be Invested elsewhere?


Hi Richard,
The current Accession is MM, hence the need for an Elevator with MC. I understand that the MC version is still under development.
David,
If you haven't already, have a look at Grahams explanations here:
https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/accession-for-moving-coil_topic3003_page1.html
and a little about phono amps here:
https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/blog/all-about-the-phono-preamp.html
There are more discussions within the forum on the merits of MM and MC and the difficulties of designing a phono amp.
Happy Reading
Ian
Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morris_minor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 4:35pm
I run three turntables each with their own GSP phono amp: an Era Gold V, a Reflex M and and Accession + Elevator. While the MC setup gives me subjectively better results, the MM systems sound great and if I had to live with just one MM system I'd still be a happy bunny.

The (hopefully) forthcoming Accession MC could well see my Elevator for sale (if I'm not tempted to put MCs in another system, that is!).
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 6:44pm
Quite correct about MC being awkward to design for. If it were possible for all vinyl listeners to home trial an Accession MM they might change their thinking regarding MM, but as one of my dealers said, it doesn't compute in most people's brains to put a £936 phono stage with a £500 cartridge.

OK, then spend more. But the problem is that almost all vinyl releases are artist and producer checked to make sure they're going to sell (except the ones who don't care). What are they going to try them on? An expensive audiophile system or an average of what the expected audience owns?

OK, then that means they use MM, or that's what I think most sensible people will assume.

So straight away with a textbook MC stage you will sense a lack of "life" and that is due to the frequency peaking at around 16kHz on MM's. So the master for pressings will have a compensatory dip around 16kHz to make it "sound right" (where the label actually cares that is).

With MC the response is flat, so the dip is apparent and makes such records feel flat, and as respected member Chris Firth noted regarding the lack of HF extension on his speakers, you end up turning the volume higher and higher to replace that missing "something".

That isn't good enough for me (or my customers) and so I have to spend ages figuring out how to compensate for the HF dip, without actually trying to put it back. The answer is obvious in that the high frequency performance in that frequency band has to be "holier than thou" - it must have perfect stability and nothing shall stand in its way.

How that is done is not found in any text book. It is not taught in any university, or even on the internet of all things. It is done by careful component choice, and no, not any of those silly audiophile electronic components which seem to get people's juices flowing Shocked

And that is why it is taking quite some time to launch the Accession MC, because final "tuning" takes such a long time. Why? Because components have to "burn-in" (other manufacturers often call it witchcraft because they don't understand it) and what works this week might not work next week.

It has to be right otherwise I cannot justify the £1200 asking price.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StreamIT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 6:52pm
Hi Graham,

The way you explain things makes perfect sense to me.

In your opinion, should I go for the MM Accession/EXP combo now... or wait for the Accession MC?

Ideally I'd like to keep my DL-103R, as I feel that this is one of the best purchases I've made, regardless of price.

Many thanks,
David
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richardl60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 8:27pm
Yes Ian the Accession is mm only at present which was what I was saying, and I have one+ Elevator.
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