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PHONO Stages.... Oh No.... help |
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patientot
Senior Member Joined: 28 Nov 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1523 |
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Posted: 30 Apr 2019 at 3:25pm |
RE: the 440, there is frequency peaking around 10Khz or so, and it's pretty prominent. This is at 47K ohm loading with 100pf at the phono stage + common cabling (add another 100pf or so). That's what makes it sound bright and it's very easy to measure that with a test LP that has a frequency sweep. Load the 47K down to 39K with resistive loading plugs and it will tame that peak as I showed in my graph upthread. It's a quirk of the cartridge. Can't blame a "faithful" RIAA phono stage for not fixing a cartridge problem. It's like taking a pair of speakers that have very prominent peaking, then blaming a "flat" amplifier for not taming the peaking. Here is graph of the 440mla FR as done by Miller Audio Research. The 440mlb will have the same type of peaking you see in the graph as these carts are nearly identical. The newer 540ml which replaced the 440 models tames this peaking somewhat.
Edited by patientot - 30 Apr 2019 at 3:39pm |
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Lucabeer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2009 Location: Torino, Italy Status: Offline Points: 703 |
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Again, same here for me with the Bronze and the Reflex. Just perfect. On the contrary, it was with the Black that I found highs (cymbals, etc) slightly hot and "ringing". |
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Lucabeer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2009 Location: Torino, Italy Status: Offline Points: 703 |
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For what I am concerned, my AT440MLa (universally considered "toppy") into your Reflex M is not bright at all, just perfect (and I usually HATE a bright sound). So, good job! But that's just my ears!
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patientot
Senior Member Joined: 28 Nov 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1523 |
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I used to have that Vessel A3SE cartridge before selling it. I think it's a good cartridge, with some limitations. At the $99 USD level I prefer it over some other options. It's also based on a cart that has been around in various forms since the 70s, so an old/proven design. Never had a problem with it sounding "thin" at all with different turntables and phono preamps. Unfortunately I never got to test it with the Reflex because I had already sold the cart by then.
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Graham Slee
Admin Group Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16298 |
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Earlier today I was running an Ortofon 2M Bronze into my Accession M, and having read what John said was getting into a bit of a tizz, because it sounded a bit on the thin/bright side. I've been using this Accession M for over a year constantly-on you see, so it's well run in. Anyway, I thought I'd try the LP Gear Vessel A3SE which Rome Castellanes had sent me a few years ago to try. The difference goes by the same name as the Gerry Raferty track I'm listening to as I type: night and day. Definitely not thin, or dry, it's a very liquid sound with a generous but not overbearing low end helping. Edited by Graham Slee - 29 Apr 2019 at 7:04pm |
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Graham Slee
Admin Group Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16298 |
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Just an idea for John, perhaps the Accession is a bit too honest or transparent, so I'd give an Era Gold V a try. Why? The bass is looser and leading edges a bit more relaxed. It might just be the ticket. Now, if that's too much in the opposite direction then it would suggest the Reflex M.
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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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patientot
Senior Member Joined: 28 Nov 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1523 |
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Very true. That's what I've found as well. I would rather have the phono stage be "faithful" than adding anything or taking something away. I think some manufacturers do use a "tuned" response curve. There is one boutique U.S. manufacturer that does that - scooped upper mids and a big boost at both frequency extremes. Not for me. I think with cartridges, the best we can do is try to buy one that reasonably close to flat, or else experiment with loading or even tone controls/EQ.
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