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Tone Controls: A topic about tone controls

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Fatmangolf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 8:27am

Hi Graham, bass trapping will alter the room acoustics reducing prominent low frequencies (room nodes) caused by the room dimensions. It is usually absorbant material (like high density FR foam) in the corners and tuned absorbers (membrane/panel in front of depth or air like a drum but with Rockwool or similar material inside).

Generally the depth of the absorbing material sets the lowest frequency it can absorb, so felt pads of a few mm thickness would need to be layered (hence 10,000's needed) to make any difference below high frequencies.
 
Bass trapping will control bass bloom on certain notes. It won't probably won't give any sound proofing benefit as that requires the listening space to be isolated from the outside world. For high volume listening that means a room within a room. There are resources on soundproofing on the net and I can post some more info later if it would be helpful.
Jon

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tg [RIP] View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tg [RIP] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 10:20am

I would imagine that the felt dots in the corners would effect a fairly specific range of high frequencies if anything.

I would also observe that there is a world of difference between tuning the acoustic response of a room for a reasonably flat response at one or two specific places using fairly carefully positioned sound sources and reducing the amount of sound carried to neighbours from a workshop.  Pretty certainly some frequencies/ranges will carry more than others and differing materials may be required to dampen their transmission, double layer gypsum board with rockwool or similar of perhaps 50 - 75 mm thickness between has been used IIRC - but acoustics specialists will be much better informed.

Phil sounds a very proper name for someone placing concrete in a hole. Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonclancy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 11:34am
Was that a vindaloo-grade septic tank, Graham?  Wink

I've been tied up the last few days, but following this thread from afar.  I fully intend to go back and read Thor's article in more detail, rather than just scanning it.  I can see how placing the felt dots might interrupt room resonances, and that a coat of laquer might add damping to an item.  I'm not sure it I could detect the differences.  However, in the name of science, I might buy some felt pads when I'm next in the DIY shed.  I think our acoustic piano, guitar, cd racks and other furniture might have a greater effect!

Cheers

Jon



Edited by jonclancy - 17 Sep 2010 at 12:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 10:15pm
It was certainly a big hole. Not sure if it rated vindaloo, certainly above madras and short of phaal.
 
Back to tech. I think the worst rooms I have heard are rooms with uneven treatment. That is rooms that are deadened in one part of the sound spectrum but reflective/live or even resonant in others. I mentioned egg box rooms earlier so lets move on from the obvious damped treble.
 
Most living rooms are acoustically dead with some bass bloom that can be tamed but have some reflections leading to ringing or pinging. With no music playing, try clapping your hands and listening to the room. If you have a flatscreen TV (great otherwise!) listen to the slapback echo off it. That's real rooms for you.
 
Anyway the problem is that a real room will respond differently to different frequencies. This is about the transient response and time decay. A plot of an untreated room would show how some frequencies sustain and boom or ring compared to others. With furniture and decor it is less obvious but the room's response will vary with frequency. It really is all the other stuff we have in real rooms like Jon Clancy wrote.
 
Unless you have put your speakers in the worst place in a terribly proportioned room (try a cube of 10 feet/3 metres sides) the distribution of the stuff in the room is more likely to change the sound.
 
And some Soundproofing options:
1) close your (double glazed) windows
2) don't pressurise a small (up to 30m2) room with floorstanding speakers and sub woofer
3) build a listening room inside your room with inner walls, absorption and a floated floor
4) talk to neighbours about acceptable times for loud music and antisocial times
5) listen to headphones when you want to crank it at night
 
I would suggest the last two "treatments" are actually the most effective.
 
Jon
Jon

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daronharvey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2011 at 12:05pm

As a newcomer to this forum, I thought I would chip in with some thoughts and observations of my own.

A recent house move has meant that I'm now in the enviable position of having a dedicated listening room... or so I thought. My system (old, but lovely... some of which I've had for a couple of decades!) includes a Linn turntable, Arcam CD92, Naim pre and power amps, and some Monitor Audio GR60 speakers. The room, however, is not playing ball. Far too much bass, and a lot of clarity being lost, especially when the music gets busy or loud(ish). It sounded far better in the old house, in a room shared by other stuff including the TV, etc.

Some recordings do actually sound great, while others can only be tolerated by rolling off the volume. This sometimes means that I have to roll off the excitement too, which is defeating the object of why I put the track on in the first place.

Given that what goes down on a recording can be greatly influenced by what the recording engineer hears through the monitor speakers in the studio, meaning that bass-heavy monitor speakers could result in a bass-light recording (and vice-versa), I often feel that regardless of how detailed or not my hi-fi gear is, and in that I include my headphones (Grado SR80's), my enjoyment is compromised by a little too much or little of the sound characteristics which I have no control over.... and kinda wish I had!
 
I dont suffer from neighbours in noise polution sense, and I'm considering what... with the permission of my better half... I can do in my listening room which isn't going to cost me a packet (which quite frankly I dont have). Headphones now seem to be playing a greater part in my listening than even, which is why I ended up on this site in the hope of finding something which could live comforatbly along side my other old faithful hi-fi gear for years to come. I feel I'm in the right place!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2011 at 1:41pm
Quite a lot can be done with speaker positioning - pulling them a metre away from the back or side walls helps a great deal. Also play around with toe-in or toe-out - I find distant speakers work better toed-in slightly and near-field speakers work better toed-out slightly. Stands should be really solid to prevent boom - filling hollow metal stands with sand increases mass that the bass energy finds difficult to shift. If your walls were mirrors you'd see reflections of your speakers from your listening position - the sound bounces of at these reflection points and your ears can be confused during busy passages. Try to arrange soft furnishings to soften these reflections. Wall rugs, heavy curtains and even pictures printed onto acoustic deadening panels can be employed. Ceilings can be a problem too - best have the speakers at a mid point between floor and ceiling, but if the reflections are really bad then the only thing you could do is stick a Sonex Wiltec tile on the ceiling half way between speakers and you.

A change of headphones may also help not forgetting a change of headphone amp Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daronharvey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2011 at 3:35pm

Hi Graham

Thanks for the suggestions on the speaker positioning, etc. For the size of the speakers, it could be that the room is a little on the small side, but this is what I have to work with, and I'll give it a shot.

The Monitor Audio GR60's are 110cm tall, and are floor standing. Currently they're standing about 8" from the rear wall, and 12" from the side walls, with a slight toe-in. I'll give them a try by moving them forward and inwards, but I'm compromised a little with there being doors at either side of the room cliose to where the speakers are currently. I'll also look out for that Sonex Wiltec tile you mentioned, although I'm keen to focus my next spend on a headphone amp, so what this space.

Incidentally, I did consider upgrading the Grado SR80's to SR225i's or SR325i's, but as MP3 is my only headphone source (albeit a damn good MP3 player), I feel I could be spending money in the wrong place by upgrading my 'phones, and should be giving some attention to the source and therefore making the best use of my Arcam CD92

I appreciate the feedback, Graham... thanks!

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