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Thinking about a 1200G

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Drewan77 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drewan77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2018 at 6:37pm
Hi Jon

I have owned an SL1200G since last January & use various MM carts with it via the Accession M. I can recommend a few:

My favourite will always be the Audio Note IQ3 but this is going to be a bit beyond the budget you mention. However you could get an IQ1 (same body) and pair it with a Goldring 1042 stylus - it fits as the IQs are made by Goldring under license & sounds quite similar to the next in range IQ2 (also very good & close to the IQ3).

Likewise the Roksan Corus Black or Silver, again Goldring derivatives & once again sound excellent with the 1042 stylus (I use a Black/1042 or sometimes Black/1012 combo a lot on my 1200G, probably more than anything else). There were one of each of these carts on ebay when I just checked. 

I like the 2M Black on the Technics but it is very fussy to setup, especially azimuth. Once aligned correctly it has a beautiful sound, in my opinion only bettered by the IQ3. I hear no 'resonance' issues with the Ortofon, nor in fact with an AT150ANV & 150Sa stylus which would be similar to a VM750SH. Both are excellent & match well to the 1200G.

As far as 'hum' & MI, I also have a Grado Prestige II cartridge with various styli & in spite of what you may read about this brand, it is absolutely silent & all stylus derivatives have a silky midrange, albeit more laid back than any of the others I mentioned above.

One final comment - a pair of CuSat 0.6m interconnects between the G & Accession produces very silky treble so I guess the capacitance is a perfect match at the 100pf setting.

Enjoy your new table....
Older than I once was, younger than I'll be
.............................
Andrew
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JonThurston View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonThurston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 6:50pm
Dear Andrew, Old Skool, Colin, et al

Quick update from me, now I have my 1200G up and running:

The Technics SL-1200G replaces my Rega RP8 - so a radically different set of engineering principles underpinning the 'tables.

My listening room is our 18 ft x 13ft front room (14ft high ceilings), somewhat springy floorboards - underfloor heating, so no damping from rugs - and not a dedicated space, so the 'table is placed on a rack not a wall shelf to permit fair use for all my family.

As you can imagine, its a bright, rather thin sounding room, with plenty of troublesome vibrations.

The 18kg of the 1200G, however, copes admirably with these challenges. The Rega suffered audibly in this environment. (I briefly had a Clearaudio Concept with the silly floppy magnetic tonearm which would skate all over the place if our cat so much as tiptoed across the floor.)

On the Rega I had a 2M Bronze which I found, true to its reputation, to have captivating detail but a very insubstantial presence in my room. Hence Andrew's discussion on cartridges (above) was invaluable to me - again I thank him for his kind and detailed advice.

In the end I opted for an Audio Technica VM750SH - I had read in certain reviews of the 1200G (eg. Fremer) that the table could have a slightly bright edge, so I felt like trying out a shibata shape due to the reputed mid-range presence, but also fancied, for a change, trying something other than an Ortofon.

I decided to align the AT to Lofgren A/Baerwald, since the vast majority of my LPs end their sides with an ample swathe of deadwax. 

To achieve this I used a Feickert protractor - a nicely machined bit of kit, but with cartridges such as the AT (that have their cantilever tucked away under the body) the Feickert is a real b**tch to use. Even with a digital microscope - and excellent lighting - the black anodised finish of the Feickert poses real challenges to the effectiveness of the human retina. Carts with exposed cantilevers, I imagine, are much more suited to both this particular protractor and the avoidance of early-onset glaucoma.

(Incidentally, on the Rega I used a Mint Tractor: much easier concerning tucked-away cantilevers, but obviously a lot less flexible than the Feickert).

The AT is 17.3mm in height, so to give me some extra wiggle room when dialling in SRA I opted for an Oyiade BR-12 mat. This thing gives me an extra 2mm up at the headshell end, thus enabling a touch of tail down when the 1200G's tonearm is set to zero on the VTA adjuster.

(Incidentally, I've never played around with mats before - the Oyiade is very impressively made, and has a 1-deg taper out from the spindle which, when you use a record weight, is supposed to aid flattening slight warps. I have found that this actually does work! Oyiade recommend a 300g weight but I found 240g worked better, as 300g over-egged the bass.)

I have set the AT at 2g VTF - and the thing sailed through all the tracking tests on the HiFi News Test record - I have anti-skate set at a whisper above 1.

I also took Andrew's advice and invested in a pair of CuSats: I got them in 1m length. On my Accession MM I have found zero pf capacitance on the dip switches hits the sweet spot a tad more sweetly than the more logical 100pf.

I now have 15 hours on the 'table, cart and interconnect - everything else, including the Accession, has 100s of hours...


INITIAL FINDINGS

Taken together, this combination presents music in my room in a much more coherent way. The Rega/2M Bronze was just too amorphous in the room (far better in headphones).

I surmise I am hearing (possibly) the solidity of direct drive, and the mid-range presence of a shibata vs micro-line?

The detail of the Rega/2M Bronze is lacking, and the soundstage is not as holographic - two factors which I hope will improve (either because mechanical break-in/electrical burn-in are real phenomena, or because my psycho-acoustic perceptions evolve)  - yet the trade-off (as its stands) is the one I envisioned when I decided to swap out a lightweight skeletal belt-driven turntable for a brutalist direct-drive machine. 

I am really enjoying my record collection again!

Of course, I also now have the added benefit (financial liability) of swapping carts as easily as swapping headshells...

The journey continues.


Technics SL 1200G w/AT VM750SH - CuSat50 - Accession MM - Marantz PM6006 - ULDE - Sennheiser HD600 - ProAc DT8
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Richardl60 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richardl60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 7:43pm
Thanks for your informative review and is a domestic compromise in many ways as you set out.

Is it the ‘Floorboard bounce’ rather than audible feedback the main issue?

My equally substantial former DD deck was used on a floorboard suspended rack at my previous house and I tended to tiptoe around the room to avoid issues but do recall LP12s being all over the place at 70s/80s hifi shows.

I do find that with my deck being located close to my bass driver my current suspended TT doesn’t pick up any audible colouration at high levels my DD TT picked up on certain material with more sustained bass lines.

Sounds like you have found a good way forward which suits your needs and provides flexibility in other areas and enjoyment of listening is why we are all here....


Edited by Richardl60 - 24 Jan 2019 at 7:44pm
The Source turntable, Audiomods V micrometer, Dynavector XX2-2, Accession M, Elevator, Leema Antila 2Seco CD player, TDL studio 1.
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JonThurston View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonThurston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 8:22pm
Hi Richard

yes, floorboard bounce was the issue. I'm able to site the rack away from overt airborne vibrations.

Happy to report the 1200G appears fairly impervious to it. 

The Rega RP8 would occasionally mistrack due to the floor. 

The Clearaudio Concept with Verify magnetic tonearm would mistrack all over the place if anyone within a 5-mile radius sneezed.

Interestingly, the issue is well reported in various forums, and the US importer of Clearaudio now routinely offers the Concept with the traditional bearing Satify tonearm at no extra cost for any customer who has a sprung floor. In the UK, I have found, there is still a bit of importer reluctance to acknowledge the issue.

When I decided to move on from the Rega the necessary domestic comprise of my flooring played a role in my decision-making. For example, I was advised not to consider a Gyrodec or an LP12 as the floor would likely excite the suspension laterally.

It took me a while to acclimatise to the aesthetics of the 1200G and shake off the well rehearsed direct-drive vs belt-drive orthodox thinking, but thus far I'm very happy with the experiment...
Technics SL 1200G w/AT VM750SH - CuSat50 - Accession MM - Marantz PM6006 - ULDE - Sennheiser HD600 - ProAc DT8
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richardl60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 9:40pm
Long term happiness is the goal and sounds like you are getting there.
The Source turntable, Audiomods V micrometer, Dynavector XX2-2, Accession M, Elevator, Leema Antila 2Seco CD player, TDL studio 1.
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Old skool View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old skool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 8:48am
Hi John

Thanks for your insights into 1200G ownership. 

Just wondering why a wall shelf is out of the question?
Even the Technics would benefit.
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old skool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 11:54am
You can get pretty timber plinths for 1210s in your choice of polished wood from the likes of Inspire HiFi. 

I may go that way when I get my 1200G. 
It’s a bit pro audio for the front room. 
Hiding it in a pretty walnut box might help get it past the Mrs. 
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....
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