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Speaker Advice for Bitzie System (Take II)
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miT View Drop Down
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Points: 890 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2016 at 9:40am
Originally posted by Ash Ash wrote:

Great to see you back again; it's certainly been a while. I have used the Equator D5 active speakers in the past...
Thanks for the warm welcome Ash. It is great to be back! I seem to have missed a fair bit with the new site rolling out!
The D5's were on my list due to your previous recommendations, plus my own experience with coax drivers. When I was looking last time, the improvement that type of driver brought to music (mainly noticed with classical) pretty much rendered traditional drivers defunct in my opinion.
Sadly the new responsibilities of fatherhood and being the sole earner rule out any lavish expenditure, hence the idea of going with active monitors again.
I don't plan to sell the headphones, they're just not going to be in use for a while. The benchmark they provide makes a great comparison.


Originally posted by Graham Slee Graham Slee wrote:

What's needed is a pair of nearfield active monitors...
Thanks for the advice Graham. Nearfield active monitors are what I have been looking for as "hifi" options are generally poor (hence we all come here!).
I have been dying to experience the LS35As for years as I want to judge them with my own ears. A side point I have always wondered is why such high quality speakers where required in the first place. Forgive me naivity but high quality domestic TV and radio systems have only been mainstream in recent years so why would the Beeb require them for their engineers? More of an educational point..
As mentioned above, sadly the Proprius would push cost too high but have been something I've wanted for a long time. I go nowhere else for my musical needs so one day...
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miT View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Richardl60 Richardl60 wrote:

Going off beam a little but talking of the LS3/5a, I know Graham is attached to his...
Thanks Richard. From my time with GSP and on the forum, the LS3/5As have struck me as the least discontinued of the bunch! LOL
It says a lot that so many companies have been involved with trying to keep them alive for so long. I have long felt that the majority of people have been so corrupted by the mass produced lowfi junk out there that they have simply forgotten how to listen. Lowfi actually gives me a headache after being exposed for too long. How do they do it?

Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

Having heard Graham's LS3/5A's powered by Proprius amps at pretty close range in the old HSC work shop, I would endorse the recommendations I've read above. I was very impressed by the precise positioning of instruments and effects across left to right in the mix on a mixture of songs/tracks, and the depth of the soundfield on some classical recordings was remarkable with instruments in the right places away from the front of the orchestra.
You're just rubbing it in now aren't you Jon? Wink
You would think that such a "simple" task (i.e. Natural, precise music production) wouldn't be to much of a big ask from a company who make speakers, but most of them out there shouldn't be in production. Even some cheaper active studio monitors I have demo'd lasted seconds before politely asking the retailer to switch them off. Although I guess it explains why "music" nowadays sounds as bad as it does... As Ash said earlier that once the decent amplification I out of the way, the drivers themselves can be relatively cheap but still sound amazing.

Of the few I have been able to demo so far Genelecs seem to be at the top of the list, although I want to demo them again to be sure. They even have a chart on their website of which model to go for at different listening distances; rather handy. Are there any other 4 or 5" + nearfield active monitors out there worth demo'ing?
Cabling is a given (GSP or no one) but has anyone had any joy with room EQ software or products like miniDSP, Antimode or Dirac?
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Yes from my very limited exposure to new speakers I am inclined to agree. Large numbers of designs appears to being little genuinely new to the party particularly some of the mass producers.   Two word reason in my view 'marketing men' pushing their wares to often guilable public. CD did I hear anyone say 'the perfect sound' I recall in some of the very early show demos? Only last night a friend said their son wanted a pair of Bose headphones. No idea what they are but sure they will not be bought for sound reasons. Info as falcon are making the drivers as I understand that ARE trying to recreate the original rather than a poor imitation.
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Points: 16298 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2016 at 12:59pm
You want Drewan77 regarding room EQ.

Another way of getting "room  EQ" right is to deaden it. I have to do this to my workshop extension because, with only the desk in, it resonates like crazy. It would have helped if it was built with a ratio of 1.6:1 (the "magic ratio") but at 1.4:1 it is at least similar to many lounges and living rooms.

Once all my shelves complete with books and files are in, and my work station, cupboards and storage racks - as well as a couple of curtains (one across the glass door and the other to counter balance it the other side of the room) - it should be acoustically "good enough" for listening tests (as is the existing workshop next door).

The worst acoustics are that of an empty or sparsely furnished room, where you'll get standing waves reinforcing or attenuating frequencies usually in the mid bass.
That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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For room eq and DSP, yes I have tried miniDSP and was impressed enough to move on to DEQX processors in both my systems. Quality is in a different league but sadly so is the price ! 

I haven't used software based DSP because much of my listening is vinyl based but when I have been able to listen to an all-digital system (using Dirac), it was also very good. Correctly implemented digital crossover, phase, time alignment & room correction will remove any sense of the room-speaker interface, which often frustrates even the best systems.

Taking Graham's comments above, I agree that room treatment and 'clutter' can go a long way to assist with acoustics. In my experience when phase and time alignment are precise & correct, the need for eq is quite minimal, usually subtle & only for a couple of room-node mid-bass frequencies.

(Active monitors - I use a pair of M-Audio M3-8 active studio monitors in a second system. 3-way kevlar 8" & kevlar 5" containing a coaxially mounted 1" silk dome tweeter. Near field bass response, soundstage & imaging are very good, treble is smooth giving fatigue free listening for hours on end.They are quite large and heavy though, having a contoured wood front baffle designed to reduce edge diffraction).
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miT View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Richardl60 Richardl60 wrote:

Yes from my very limited exposure to new speakers I am inclined to agree...
I haven't been involved with speakers much during my limited career as an audio enthusiast. I bypassed hifi and went into headphones, which was how I stumbled across Graham, my only speakers being my cinema system until Benji was due and I had to get a speaker system.
Now that I've had to look again due to moving and having a small "office", I've started demos again and have found much the same as you Richard.
While I know they aren't worth heavily defending, I will say that at least Bose headphones are on the better side of average...

Originally posted by Graham Slee Graham Slee wrote:

You want Drewan77 regarding room EQ.

Another way of getting "room  EQ" right is to deaden it...
Thanks Graham. Due to the room being so small I am limited with what I can fit in there but I have made one wall (diagonally behind my listening position due to opting for a corner desk) full of shelves with DVDs which I hope will help.
What are your thoughts on (proper) acoustic foam? I bought lots for our cinema room and while I haven't put them up yet, I can always buy more for my office.

Originally posted by Drewan77 Drewan77 wrote:

For room eq and DSP, yes I have tried miniDSP and was impressed enough to move on to DEQX processors in both my systems. Quality is in a different league but sadly so is the price !
Thanks Andrew. I think I will make a new thread to discuss this as your experience, plus any others out there deserves a new discussion.
The M3-8s though... Very interesting! I'm not sure where I could demo them but the pair is cheaper than a single Genelec 8030!


Edited by miT - 30 Oct 2016 at 6:48pm
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Ash View Drop Down
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Points: 4334 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2016 at 8:00pm
The problem with box speakers in small rooms, especially those with poor acoustics, is the reverberant energy the cabinet material can store and emit. Not only does it confine the sound, it also sends indirect energy reflecting around the room. For a small room, you'll want to go smaller than the Equator D5s, as even though the driver assembly is not particularly massive, the cabinet is bigger than you'd expect and the material is thick with a solid build. The box faces will emit vibrations too... Maybe look at something like the Adam A3X??
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