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Proprius Speaker Mounting

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Drewan77 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drewan77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Proprius Speaker Mounting
    Posted: 07 Jun 2013 at 8:43am
I have read with interest, people enthusing over the Proprius amps and I see an option to mount these directly to speakers.

This prompts me to question something that has often puzzled me, especially as the people on this forum (particularly Mr Slee and his colleagues) seem to talk more sense than any audio forum or manufacturer I have encountered before....

In the years I have been pursuing this hobby, the concept of 'isolation' from vibration affecting sensitive electrical components seems to make sense. Much has been written about this and there are companies that make a great deal of noise (& money so maybe it's a myth?? Shocked ) about spikes, cones, feet, platforms, materials etc. If this is relevant for a traditional rack mounted system (metal, glass, stone=hard sound, wood=warmer organic sound etc which suggests the mounting surface does have an impact) then why attach an amp to the thing that creates all the vibration in the first place?

Now, I run a system with two powered subwoofers and I have often wondered whether removing the amps and building separate cabinets adjacent to but not attached to the drivers might improve the sound, tighening the bass (but decided against it because no doubt the displaced volume in the cabinets would affect the subwoofer tuning)

So, my questions are (and please don't think me a 'smart-arse' these are genuine concerns)....

Does mounting the Proprius amps directly to a speaker have an impact on the sound?

Is this is noticeable, maybe in an A-B listening test and if it is not, is isolation less important for non-source components?

Also, if there is a disadvantage caused by vibration from the speaker, is this more than compensated by the very short final cable run to the drivers?

I ask because in my system I have two large open baffle speakers for mid-treble and would consider using four of these mono blocks in the future.

Maybe someone far more technically savvy could help me.....

Thanks
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Andrew
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morris_minor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morris_minor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2013 at 9:14am
Your thoughts about speaker-mounting of the Proprius echoed mine. I was in two minds whether to have a long balanced cable going to the speakers or just long speaker cables. In the end my choice of an AV pre-amp without balanced connections decided the wiring.

Everywhere you look there are vibration-busting devices/racks etc. For turntables I can understand why you need to deal with vibration; for electronics less so, though reading reviews of kit, it's often a night-&-day difference claimed when mounting on this or that support.

Currently I'm at my study desk (er, "working" Embarrassed ) and listening at a pretty loud level to some Bach organ music played through a pair of Harbeth active speakers. I can say with certainty that the incorporation of a couple of amplifiers in each speaker doesn't harm the sound; in fact it's bloomin' fantastic, with bass rattling the windows. I'd wager that the amps in these speakers are no better put together than the Proprius - and probably inferior.

When you think that active speakers are common in recording studios where quality monitoring is a prerequisite, the mounting of a Proprius on the back of a speaker is an entirely sensible proposition. Mounting two per speaker doubly so! Shocked Wink
Bob

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Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drewan77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2013 at 9:31am
Thanks Bob

Well, yes I sort of agree and the comment about active speakers in studios is a strong one. The only niggling doubt comes from when I changed from a metal/slate rack to a 'Voodoo' oak/air supended one about 8 years ago. The difference putting my preamp and power amps on that was quite noticeable - treble became less hard whilst bass bloomed so somehow it must have affected the electronics.

I am also listening loud at the moment (Cream live Albert Hall) - a pair of loan CuSat50s arrived this morning and I immediately notice quite a difference to Chord Chamelions from phono to pre Approve. The only problem I might have is that there are 5 @1m + 1 @5m +1 @2m interconnects in my system plus 2 digital so it could be bloomin' expensive!
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Andrew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morris_minor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2013 at 9:47am
Maybe Graham will share his thoughts about speaker mounting the Proprius - though as brackets are included with the amp I guess that shows his approval of the concept?

For interconnects over 1m the Lautus are the ones to have! Not that this helps the bank balance . . . LOL You could always start by re-cabling the "critical path" first, of course . . . 
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2013 at 11:19am
I envisage that mounting Proprius monoblocks onto small monitors such as the Harbeth M20 or the Stirling Broadcast LS3/5A would not cause problems with the amplifier's performance. The additional mass of the monoblocks when coupled with the speaker cabinets would lower the resonant frequency of the units but as long as speaker vibrations transferring to the monoblocks are critically damped, it should be okay I reckon. Hopefully this would not cause any audible sound colouration... These mini-monitors are designed for nearfield sound purity more than for sound volume so bass frequencies in the cabinets would not be excessive like in subwoofers. I might be wrong here though. This is very good topic so thanks for starting it. Thumbs Up

Edited by Nuance_Ember - 07 Jun 2013 at 11:22am
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Drewan77 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drewan77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2013 at 12:01pm
I am still not sure at what frequency/volume the vibrations could affect the electronics. Below I show one of my OB speakers - these have 4 midrange 5" drivers ea, running the frequency range 110Hz-2500kHz with steep 72dB x-overs. I do play pretty loud and these things have spectacular transient attack, drums are virtually 'real'. Although the cabinets are from very dense Zebrano Bamboo (similar to Mahogany but looks nicer) I can certainly feel slight a slight sensation during even mid volume listening if I put my hand on them - although very little on the bases which is where I guess the amps could go


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morris_minor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2013 at 1:04pm
That speaker looks great Drewan! Did you make it yourself? And are the drivers ceramic?
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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