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Ortofon Cadenza Bronze vs Dynavector XX2

Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Turntable Audio
Forum Name: MM: Moving Magnet | MC: Moving Coil
Forum Description: Learn about the differences between moving magnet and moving coil cartridges here
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5527
Printed Date: 19 Apr 2024 at 5:45pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Ortofon Cadenza Bronze vs Dynavector XX2
Posted By: Vincenzo
Subject: Ortofon Cadenza Bronze vs Dynavector XX2
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2022 at 5:48pm
I don't know why, but I can't get used to the sound of the Dynavector XX-2. I come from a black Quintet and before that from a Super om 40 and consequently I got used to the Ortofon sound. For the same price I was looking at the Cadenza Bronze which I think is fine with my P******t Evolution 9 arm. What do you think?

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Amp. Musical Fidelity M6si,Turntables VPI Scout Signature, Cartridges Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Graham Slee Accession MC, Speakers Triangle Esprit Antal Ez, Cables VAN DEN HUL D-502 Hybrid,ATLAS Equator



Replies:
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2022 at 7:54pm
Sorry that I haven't owned those cartridges but they are well regarded so I suggest going with your ears.

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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2022 at 11:46am
Hi Vicenzo,
Shame the XX-2 is not working for you.
I don't have experience of the Cadenza Bronze but I used the Cadenza Blue for many years and
can strongly recommend it.
The Blue has quite a 'vivid' sound and tracks superbly. Beautifully made too.
The Bronze is reputed to sound warmer than the Blue.


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Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.


Posted By: patientot
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2022 at 9:15pm
Sorry your cartridge change did not work out to your liking. Maybe give it a little more time.

If it's not working out at that point then maybe decide what to do.

Sometimes sticking with a brand you know well and are familiar with is better than constantly trying something new. I personally went full circle with carts and I'm now back to using something very similar to what I was using 10 years ago.

Good luck whatever you decide.


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SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.


Posted By: Vincenzo
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2022 at 6:34am
Yes, what you say is not wrong. I'll wait and try other arm and phono pre-settings. If so many people are satisfied with it, is there a reason?

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Amp. Musical Fidelity M6si,Turntables VPI Scout Signature, Cartridges Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Graham Slee Accession MC, Speakers Triangle Esprit Antal Ez, Cables VAN DEN HUL D-502 Hybrid,ATLAS Equator


Posted By: lfc jon
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2022 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

Sorry that I haven't owned those cartridges but they are well regarded so I suggest going with your ears.
That's always very good advice.


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Reflex M, Solo (both with PSU-1) CuSat50, Lautus, Spatia & Spatia links cables. Ortofon Bronze.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2022 at 5:28pm
You may already have tried using the AccMC's EQ options to slightly alter the sound of your XX-2, possibly to make it more like the Ortofon sound you like. Would that help you?

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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Vincenzo
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2022 at 6:04pm
Haven't tried it yet, the settings are currently at 100 ohms.

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Amp. Musical Fidelity M6si,Turntables VPI Scout Signature, Cartridges Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Graham Slee Accession MC, Speakers Triangle Esprit Antal Ez, Cables VAN DEN HUL D-502 Hybrid,ATLAS Equator


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2022 at 7:54am
You've probably done this already but it's always worth checking cartridge alignment adjustments.
Overhang, vta/sra, down force etc.
Small adjustments can often make a noticeable difference.

David's suggestion to give it more time is also very good advice, some cartridges take a while to
run in.




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Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.


Posted By: Vincenzo
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2022 at 10:08am
I will try, although I have the impression that the Ortofons have a better feeling with the Pro-Jects.
They are often sold in combos.
What if it's an arm-cartridge incompatibility?


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Amp. Musical Fidelity M6si,Turntables VPI Scout Signature, Cartridges Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Graham Slee Accession MC, Speakers Triangle Esprit Antal Ez, Cables VAN DEN HUL D-502 Hybrid,ATLAS Equator


Posted By: patientot
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2022 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Vincenzo Vincenzo wrote:

I will try, although I have the impression that the Ortofons have a better feeling with the Pro-Jects.
They are often sold in combos.
What if it's an arm-cartridge incompatibility?


What is the effective mass of your tonearm? I am seeing similar models to yours that say 8.5g. Is that correct or is your tonearm different?

What about the sound is it that you don't like with the Dyna cartridge?


-------------
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.


Posted By: Vincenzo
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2022 at 10:00am
The tonearm is the original 2Xperience SB, the 9 "Evolution.

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Amp. Musical Fidelity M6si,Turntables VPI Scout Signature, Cartridges Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Graham Slee Accession MC, Speakers Triangle Esprit Antal Ez, Cables VAN DEN HUL D-502 Hybrid,ATLAS Equator


Posted By: Vincenzo
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2022 at 12:14pm
It seems to me as if the background rustle has increased compared to the Quintet Black.

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Amp. Musical Fidelity M6si,Turntables VPI Scout Signature, Cartridges Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Graham Slee Accession MC, Speakers Triangle Esprit Antal Ez, Cables VAN DEN HUL D-502 Hybrid,ATLAS Equator


Posted By: patientot
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2022 at 1:28pm
Assuming an 8g effective mass tonearm

A cartridge that weighs 8.9g

Mounting hardware that weighs 1g

Western compliance of the cartridge being 10 (Dyna seems to give Western specs whereas most other Japanese companies give Japanese style specs that don't work with calculations).

The calculated resonant frequency would be 11.89. That is in the "safe zone" and wouldn't indicate a tonearm matching problem.

Still, you can go further to investigate. If the cartridge "dances" while playing a flat, centered record or vibrates excessively at normal volume, then there could be a mismatch.

You can also digitally record a flat, centered record using an audio interface or soundcard into a computer. From there we could do a rough look at the WAV file in software to see where the RF is.

As for the background rustle that might just be a characteristic of the cartridge. Some cartridges will tend to pick up more groove noise than others and there isn't much you can do about it.

In rare cases a cart may be assembled incorrectly. Usually you would have to send the cart to the manufacturer for inspection or arrange for the dealer to do so. Most dealers are not going to be able to inspect or take apart a cartridge to look for problems.


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SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.


Posted By: Vincenzo
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2022 at 6:25pm
I try to make adjustments on the arm. In the meantime, thanks for the clarifications.

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Amp. Musical Fidelity M6si,Turntables VPI Scout Signature, Cartridges Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Graham Slee Accession MC, Speakers Triangle Esprit Antal Ez, Cables VAN DEN HUL D-502 Hybrid,ATLAS Equator


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2022 at 9:16am
Good luck & let us know how you eventually get on with the XX2.
From experience some carts & arms just don't seem to 'gel' too well.



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Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2022 at 12:31pm
How many hours do you have on the XX2?

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Kevin
European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France.


Posted By: Vincenzo
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2022 at 4:43pm
More or less 100 hours

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Amp. Musical Fidelity M6si,Turntables VPI Scout Signature, Cartridges Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Graham Slee Accession MC, Speakers Triangle Esprit Antal Ez, Cables VAN DEN HUL D-502 Hybrid,ATLAS Equator


Posted By: patientot
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by Vincenzo Vincenzo wrote:

More or less 100 hours


If you've tried everything the cart might just not be to your taste then. That should be more than enough hours to assess.


-------------
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.


Posted By: Vincenzo
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 6:01pm
I did, ordered a Cadenza Bronze and it arrives this week.
Meanwhile, the Dynavector is put on sale there.
I am sure that I will like the Cadenza.


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Amp. Musical Fidelity M6si,Turntables VPI Scout Signature, Cartridges Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Graham Slee Accession MC, Speakers Triangle Esprit Antal Ez, Cables VAN DEN HUL D-502 Hybrid,ATLAS Equator


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2022 at 9:18am
Do share your thoughts on the Bronze.Smile

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Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.


Posted By: Vincenzo
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2022 at 9:43am
Of course!

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Amp. Musical Fidelity M6si,Turntables VPI Scout Signature, Cartridges Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Graham Slee Accession MC, Speakers Triangle Esprit Antal Ez, Cables VAN DEN HUL D-502 Hybrid,ATLAS Equator


Posted By: Vincenzo
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2022 at 5:04pm
Good morning, it has arrived.
It connects me to the Ortofon sound that I was missing, and I think it is, from all points of view, the most beautiful thing I have ever heard.

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Amp. Musical Fidelity M6si,Turntables VPI Scout Signature, Cartridges Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Graham Slee Accession MC, Speakers Triangle Esprit Antal Ez, Cables VAN DEN HUL D-502 Hybrid,ATLAS Equator


Posted By: patientot
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2022 at 5:36pm
Glad this story had a happy ending!


-------------
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2022 at 5:58pm
Thanks Vincenzo. That is great news.

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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2022 at 9:11am
Great to read this.
The Cadenzas are excellent cartridges.



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Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2022 at 9:04am
I am glad you have found happiness again.
I am currently listening to my XX2, and that makes me happy.

Just goes to show, we are all different. Thumbs Up


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Kevin
European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France.


Posted By: McHolmeM
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2022 at 9:52am
I also have a liking for the Ortofon MC sound.

Over the past decade I've used a Rondo Red, subsequently replaced with a Hana SL, before moving back to the Ortofon brand with a Cadenza Red.

Since 2018 it's been a Cadenza Bronze for me also.

  


Posted By: georgem
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2023 at 5:07pm
i started out with a rondo red and have been using the quintet bronze.  Been tempted to get a quintet black fro my SME309. I heard the new Michell Cusat on a 309 and a gyrodeck at Bristol and it sounded really good but a little of out my price point.  

I have seen a discounted DV XX2 but I fear it might sound soft on top, I need some screech and attack on guitars 


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 10:59am
The Cadenza Blue has good attack & is not soft but the Cadenza series is getting costly now
(like much else).
Ortofon have apparently 'voiced' the Cadenza series with different cantilever & stylus types
with the ruby cantilever of the blue contributing to its upfront sound.
It could sound quite bright at times, the Red & Bronze are described as warmer sounding.
Interesting but now quite pricey carts.





Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 1:14pm
I have a XX2, and I don't find it rounded/smoothed off.

However, I am not an Ortofon fan, but have never tried an Ortofon MC. With MMs, I preferred the AT150mlx to the 2M Black.


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Kevin
European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France.


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 2:05pm
The Cadenza Blue could sound a bit 'matter of fact' & a touch clinical.
This eased off after a couple of sides when it became more musical.




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