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Which lossless format?

Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Classified Section
Forum Name: Achieving High Fidelity Sound
Forum Description: Ask Ash
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5403
Printed Date: 27 Mar 2026 at 12:15am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Which lossless format?
Posted By: Ash
Subject: Which lossless format?
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 10:26am
I have a lot of my music on CD and some on DVD/Blu-Ray that I want to preserve/archive to SSD and HDD.

Sorry to create yet another ripping thread but I'm back to the old debate of WAV vs FLAC again. I have many rare expensive video game albums and I don't want to regret any decisions later on. Both are lossless. WAV is uncompressed with no metadata support and FLAC is compressed and supports metadata. Seems like a no-brainer but is WAV better for audio editing as it is raw L-PCM and doesn't require transcoding like FLAC would? I may eventually wish to edit audio, which is why I want to futureproof. What about platform compatibility across different computer architecture?

Should I archive in both formats and spend more money on storage drives? Will have to plan for plenty of storage redundancy.

Then the software to use? Exact Audio Copy, dBPowerAmp and VLC Media Player seem to be the most recommended. I need to start the learning curve soon otherwise I won't start at all. lfc jon said that he is no good with computers but in this area, I doubt that I am any more knowledgable, probably less so.



Replies:
Posted By: lfc jon
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 10:54am
Your right about me and computers. I use dBpowerAmp It's a one off payment and it's very easy to use. I had some help from this forum so your on the right place. I rip to FLAC as if like me you will probably find you have CDs with incorrect data on them and with FLAC you can change it, It can be long and laborious at first but you will get use to it and speed up. The good thing with this program it is will find the artwork for the album which I find useful when looking for a album on the hard drive.

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Reflex M, Solo (both with PSU-1) CuSat50, Lautus, Spatia & Spatia links cables. Ortofon Bronze.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 10:57am
You'll probably know already that I use FLAC and dBPoweramp. Works for me.

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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 11:06am
Some metadata like album cover and track name can be incorrect and will need to be changed. Where a lot of my albums are Japanese, the information is written in hiragana, katakana and kanji rather than English. I will probably have to translate a lot of metadata.

If WAV is easy to convert to FLAC, I might archive in WAV and list all the track information in text documents in case I need to copy and paste it across into the FLAC files although there may be tools that do this for you? What populates the metadata when you play a CD? Your computer connects to an online server, recognises the catalogue number of the disc and pulls the data across?


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by Ash Ash wrote:

What populates the metadata when you play a CD? Your computer connects to an online server, recognises the catalogue number of the disc and pulls the data across?
Very little of the data comes from the record companies, and if you happen upon something that does come from them the metadata is frequently atrocious.

The computer is guided towards online repositories which have CD data entered by ordinary folk like you or I, so smelling pistakes aren't unusual, punctuation occasionally absent, but more often than not the person ripping the CD manages to enter something that's comprehendible.
Mp3Tag is invaluable.

As for artwork, there are a number of places to go to find it.
Something I use is Album Art Downloader.


The WAV/FLAC conversation I refuse to get drawn into, as life's too short.
The data is ripped to WAV, then post rip converted into a smaller lossless package called FLAC.
On playback the FLAC is unpacked back to WAV.
If you're really paranoid you can compare checksums of the WAV and unpacked WAV.

I use FLAC because it makes for easier network handling with 24 bit files at high sample rates (176.4 & 192 KHz).
With CD spec stuff it matters less.





Posted By: Mikeh
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 12:35pm
Ash,
Like the others, I use dBpoweramp and FLAC format, uncompressed, for all CD ripping to NAS box. The software is very easy to use and offers the options to alter level of compression to be applied (if wanted). CDs are so quick to rip that it's easy to make multiple copies in different format. I usually make an MP3 copy to go on a USB stick for use in the car, or elsewhere.


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Mike

Technics sl1210g with Victor U-2 or Technics EPC-205C mk4
Accession MM, Majestic + Proprius, Solo ULDE
Innuos Zen mini mk3 streamer
Harbeth P3ESR XD paired with 2x REL t5x


Posted By: patientot
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 12:50pm
FLAC all day. There is no loss of quality when converting back to WAV. It also saves a ton of space.


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SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM610 MONO, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.


Posted By: patientot
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by Ash Ash wrote:

Some metadata like album cover and track name can be incorrect and will need to be changed. Where a lot of my albums are Japanese, the information is written in hiragana, katakana and kanji rather than English. I will probably have to translate a lot of metadata.

If WAV is easy to convert to FLAC, I might archive in WAV and list all the track information in text documents in case I need to copy and paste it across into the FLAC files although there may be tools that do this for you? What populates the metadata when you play a CD? Your computer connects to an online server, recognises the catalogue number of the disc and pulls the data across?


Ripping programs like dBpoweramp give you a more than one choice for metadata. You simply pick the one that is the closest. When I rip Japanese music, I typically find that if the album was popular enough, someone has already translated everything to English for me.

That doesn't mean there aren't mistakes in the translation though. I don't speak or read Japanese so I would never know. If the metadata providers only have Japanese character info, I will typically leave it, except I change the artist and album title manually to English.

With FLAC, metadata is embedded to a file. It is possible with some playback programs to pull metadata on the fly but I'm not really a fan of this as it's a rather clunky experience. That feature on a lot of programs can also make mistakes, and confuse your album with another with a similar track time.

My advice is to tag the best you can using metadata providers that dBpoweramp use. If you need to do intensive editing later, mp3tag is the best program I have come across. Note that despite the name it edits FLAC files as well.


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SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM610 MONO, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 1:21pm
Mp3Tag will do WAV tagging, which is fine if the media player supports it.
WAV tagging is not comprehensively supported by playback devices.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 1:51pm
Thanks. If there were any chance of an audible difference between FLAC and WAV, it would be down to the algorithm of what is decoding it, not due to a difference in the amount of audio data stored. Seems that FLAC just requires an additional step to convert it to L-PCM. I am tempted to use FLAC over WAV as a lot of albums like Bandcamp digital downloads use FLAC. I might just create two copies of each file in both formats, use FLAC for listening and WAV for editing, then I don't have to use conversion tools to go back and forth between them. I might be better off organizing my own metadata for all of my favourite albums and I would be able to consolidate separate works that would have ideally been on the same disc.


Posted By: lfc jon
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 2:33pm
Ash
here is a tip, when you start ripping put a piece of paper with the CD you have ripped (I put a letter R on the paper) it will save you time, as like me I didn't rip all the CDs in one go and I was putting A ripped CD in and then having to take it out and put another in (my memory is not that good) I also put on it any changes I have done.


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Reflex M, Solo (both with PSU-1) CuSat50, Lautus, Spatia & Spatia links cables. Ortofon Bronze.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 3:24pm
You could also stick a small paper dot on the spine of the jewel case.



-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: GordonM
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 3:38pm
I use flac.  It’s compressed but lossless and it has meta data.  You can recreate the uncompressed wav file perfectly from a flac.  When I create rips from LP I usually record an entire side as a single flac file and enter the details for the release as found on discogs.com.


Posted By: lfc jon
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 4:31pm
One thing with dBpoweramp is you can convert any music file to almost any music file out there. I convert to mp3 a lot so I can play it in the car from a USB stick. I can only play mp3 and the Microsoft's file system. It might not be the best, but for me it's easy to use and does what I need. 

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Reflex M, Solo (both with PSU-1) CuSat50, Lautus, Spatia & Spatia links cables. Ortofon Bronze.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 7:04pm
I use ALAC for CDs and vinyl.

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 7:21pm
Do Apple devices support WAV and FLAC?


Posted By: lfc jon
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 7:30pm
ALAC. What's the pro and cons of it? It seems to be FLAC, WAV and mp3 nowadays, I do know it's to do with apple, just interested

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Reflex M, Solo (both with PSU-1) CuSat50, Lautus, Spatia & Spatia links cables. Ortofon Bronze.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 9:07pm
Apple Lossless Audio Codec.

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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 10:10pm
Is there any way to copy an audio CD to an SSD like a Red Book .ISO so the computer sees a disc that you can rip to any format you want?


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 10:17pm
Yes you can make an image copy but ripping the cd as an album to wav or lossless tracks would give you all the music to convert to other file formats later.

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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: lfc jon
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 10:25pm
I agree with Jon. With dBpoweramp you can rip a CD and then convert it to almost any file format you wont, but I'm not sure about ALAC but all the popular file formats are covered.

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Reflex M, Solo (both with PSU-1) CuSat50, Lautus, Spatia & Spatia links cables. Ortofon Bronze.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 8:20am
Originally posted by Ash Ash wrote:

Do Apple devices support WAV and FLAC?
Apple software doesn’t, but third party software (Vox and I expect others) will play FLAC.

I continue to use ALAC, because it’s native to Apple devices and is supported by the software running on my Raspberry Pis (MoOde and Volumio).


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Ifor
=====
Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: jwatson
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 2:09pm
Ash,

I'm not sure what editing you're going to be getting up to but Audacity is easy to use and supports common functionality including FLAC import/export.  I use it on Linux but a Windows version is available.  I'd add my voice to those  recommending FLAC format.  If you ever need a WAV you can just convert it as required.


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"I bought some more old vinyl today 'cos old vinyl won't ever let you down"
Majestic DAC -> {Proprius -> Tannoy Stirling | Solo UL -> HD820}


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by Ash Ash wrote:

Do Apple devices support WAV and FLAC?
As far as I know they support WAV.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 9:25pm
I will probably choose FLAC and look into converting FLAC to WAV for editing.

The bottom line is that FLAC will preserve the audio better than leaving the data on the original discs for decades to eventually succumb to physical degradation.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by Chris Firth Chris Firth wrote:

Originally posted by Ash Ash wrote:

Do Apple devices support WAV and FLAC?
As far as I know they support WAV.
https://www.imobie.com/support/play-wav-files-on-iphone-ipad.htm -  https://www.imobie.com/support/play-wav-files-on-iphone-ipad.htm

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 9:37pm
That's a good approach Ash, ensuring you have copies that are space efficient. If it helps you.my editing software programs all open up i.e. uncompress the FLAC files and afterwards let me choose whether to save into the same format or another.



-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 10:20pm
I do wish that high quality downloads for all the music I like were available to buy online. If it were, I wouldn't have to buy CDs and hold on to them. Although as a lot of my music is *just* from video game and only for personal use, nobody would care if I sold all of my discs. I'd still have a net loss of money as I would if I were paying for downloads. Some of my genuine albums cost obscene amounts to obtain due to rarity where I could have obtained bootlegs for considerably less. Although there are a few albums that I could not bring myself to part with.


Posted By: Ernie
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 7:32am
I originally used ALAC because of having Apple devices. I never really though much of the sound I was getting still preferring CD, it was convenient. I’ve recently had a go with FLAC. It appears I have to rip everything again! To my ear holes it’s much better sound wise.

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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 8:15am
I don't wish to go with a format that favours any one operating system or computer architecture, preferring a universal and versatile format. It's more about data preservation than anything else. I'd rather have 10-20 massive SSDs/HDDs than hundreds or thousands of discs and plastic cases. I don't have the space to store it all and online downloads for it are either dreadful quality and/or illegally obtained. It is the audio that evokes my emotional response and enjoyment, not usually the physical product I am holding. Although a few of my albums have beautiful artwork that enhances the experience and I probably would keep them. The uncertainty is why I have horded discs but not created longterm archival rips.


Posted By: jwatson
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by Ernie Ernie wrote:

I originally used ALAC because of having Apple devices. I never really though much of the sound I was getting still preferring CD, it was convenient. I’ve recently had a go with FLAC. It appears I have to rip everything again! To my ear holes it’s much better sound wise.


You shouldn't have to rip anything again when moving from one lossless format to another.  I use Linux so would use either ffmpeg (command line) or Soundconverter (GUI) to perfrom the conversion.  It's worth researching to see what's available on your own operating system as the conversion preserves the metadata, the bane of file based music storage. 


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"I bought some more old vinyl today 'cos old vinyl won't ever let you down"
Majestic DAC -> {Proprius -> Tannoy Stirling | Solo UL -> HD820}


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 5:26pm
JWatson replied before I could. It is really easy to batch covert the old files to a new file type and preserve the metadata. It will take time if you have a large library but is much faster than re-ripping. After a test run on a couple of albums you could do the conversion in stages as I did rather than starting one massive batch. I recommend the new files go into a different folder.



-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.



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