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Binaural recordings

Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Headphone Audio
Forum Name: Graham Slee Headphone Amps
Forum Description: Questions, answers and product information zone for Graham Slee Headphone Amplifiers
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5367
Printed Date: 28 Mar 2024 at 9:22pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Binaural recordings
Posted By: Adytiger
Subject: Binaural recordings
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2021 at 8:02pm
Hi
I’m trialling the ULDE at home at the moment (thanks John C!) and whilst the separation/soundstage is great it seems to me the imaging/depth is still pretty much in a vertical plane through my head ( left, right and up) - not much in foreground as with speaker listening. However I have also listened to some binaural recordings off Youtube on my iPad through the amp and they sound great. Much more 360 depth in a horizontal plain through my ears. Has anyone else listened to these recordings and had a similar experience?




Replies:
Posted By: Adytiger
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2021 at 8:14pm
as a ps this is a good example  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zGY9c9LljU - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zGY9c9LljU  especially when the tambourine appears behind your head around 8m 40 s in






Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2021 at 8:14pm
Yes, there are some good test albums out there that show how a binaural mix fills in the gaps. Aside from armband conduction the separation between headphone channels is very noticeable, compared to the in-room mixing of the stereo speakers.



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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Adytiger
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2021 at 8:20pm
I read somewhere that Open back ‘ phones produce better depth/ imaging than closed or semi-closed types. Is there any evidence that supports this?



Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2021 at 8:46pm
I can only go off my listening experience which is similar to what you have read elsewhere Tom. Mainly a wider image ie.e. outside my head and some sense of sound in front, but not as much as with speakers.

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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: lfc jon
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2021 at 10:23pm
I second what Jon said. IMO speakers will always give a better forward sound (3D if you like) This may be because the speakers are in front of you, that's the best way I can explain it.

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Reflex M, Solo (both with PSU-1) CuSat50, Lautus, Spatia & Spatia links cables. Ortofon Bronze.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 12:30am
With standard stereo recordings, headphones don't have the sound positioning or depth of field that speakers can. With headphones, no matter how open the ear enclosures are and assuming no DSP, each ear hears only one channel. With stereo speakers, each ear hears both channels. The difference is significant and it is down to limitations of design, not cost.

Open-back headphones allow the back wave to leave the enclosure, releasing the pressure loading off the moving driver diaphragm. This should give a better impulse response - faster to start and to stop. The front wave can still be pressure loaded depending on the enclosure design and earpad qualities. Spacious thick earpads give more enclosed air around the ear and allow for improved stereo imaging, in my experience.


Posted By: Adytiger
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 8:58am
Thanks all for your responses. I take all that you say but it doesn’t explain why a binaural recordingnplayed through the same preamp and headphones can give a more realistic spatial image (in front of  AND behind) the head than conventional stereo recordings.
Surely it is still a stereo L/R signal being sent to each earpiece?


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 1:13pm
It is due to microphone positioning. The two mics are placed on a dummy head where the left and right ears are. The delay times between them provides the perception of 3D spatial position.


Posted By: Adytiger
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 1:34pm
Hi Ash,
Yes I understand that but is it not then possible to “tweak” or modify a conventional stereo signal to mimic what a dummy head recording “hears” and send this modified signal to the headphones? So you could take the original stereo master tape recording , “shape” it using some special software and then re-record as an approximated binaural recording.



Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 6:35pm
In theory yes but the problem is most stereo reconrdings are made up of a set of separately recorded tracks mixed together. They haven't been captured with one stereo microphone or a spaced pair as Ash wrote above, in fact many are a set of difefrent tracks of close miked instruments which may just be mono tracks panned across from left to right. That works on speakers because of the cross-mix in the room but they they have a fixed position when heard on headphones and lack directional cues.

Imagine playing a traditional stero recording through speakers and caaturing it with binaural microphones. It could be simulated with software but really it would a room model with two speakers and a stereo binaural microphone, ultimately it would still be panned stereo source signal i.e. a mixed album played back not a binaural recording.

There isn't a general solution I know of to transform a panned studio recording into a binaural recording. However, there are blend controls and contour filters on some headphone amps designed to create a more natural and interesting mix for headphone listening. I hope that helps.


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 8:57pm
Two things to look at:

MySphere 3.1
Smyth Realiser A16

I have MS 3.1. The drivers are attached to completely open frames; no enclosures at all. The ear-to-driver distance and angle can be adjusted and optimized.

I don't have the A16 but it uses DSP, headtracking and head related transfer function stuff to spatialize headphones to imitate speakers at a distance and at various positions around a virtual room. Complex and expensive stuff.



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