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What speakers do you use with your Proprius?

Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: And the rest
Forum Name: Amplification
Forum Description: Share your interests or views on amplifiers, preamps, etc
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5228
Printed Date: 28 Mar 2024 at 12:35pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: What speakers do you use with your Proprius?
Posted By: Bags
Subject: What speakers do you use with your Proprius?
Date Posted: 30 May 2021 at 11:06am
I'm finding that after a number of years without any such symptoms my 'upgradeitis' has returned and having ordered my propriuses I'm thinking about some new speakers.

I do quite a lot of my listening at low volume and so I'm after something that's Dynamic, rather than something that sounds full and lifeless until you whack up the volume.  I also like speakers that provide tight, low bass and that probably means a floor standing speaker rather than a stand mounted one.

What works well for you and what might suit me?





Replies:
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 30 May 2021 at 5:17pm
My current speakers are Monitor Audio Gold GX300's and I have used the Proprius amps with a number of different speakers. I have found like many others than the size of room is a big factor is speaker selection. I also like deep but not over powering bass and found the traditional spikes nailed the speakers to my floorboards which joined in. I fitted the Gaia III isolating feet which made a big difference for me.

I wouldn't want to guess what would work for you in your room but will offer some obvious advice in the hope it is helpful. Try different speakers at low volumes in a hifi shop listening room, a friend's house (not during Covid restrictions), or even better borrowed to try in your home.



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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Sylvain
Date Posted: 30 May 2021 at 8:27pm
1990 B&W 620 80 cms tall 90db(36 LITRES)

 Focal Aria 936 92db 110 metre tall(60 LITRES)

 Focal Chora 726 87db stand mount (20LITRES)

 yes, size air volume to size of speaker and larger DB less power hungry and allow better transient response ...but acoustic environment is significant ....
 


Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 31 May 2021 at 7:49am
I had the very great pleasure of hearing the new KEF KC62 sub paired to the KEF LS50 Meta last week. A friend just invested in the sub after having the Meta for a few months. It takes up almost no real estate, can be switched off if needed (he’s in an upstairs room above a bedroom, so doesn’t use it late night), and brought so much to the party. He spent a few hours integrating it , though.
Mick.


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Rega RP8 - Apheta 2 - Accession MC Enigma PS -Solo ULDE (Focal Utopia) - PS Audio M700 - Fical Kanta No2


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 11:11am
I don't use Proprius (yet), but a lot of listening is at low volume and the Audio Physic speakers 
I use are excellent here - detailed & dynamic with superb imaging.




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Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2022 at 11:37pm
Say I'd like to try a speaker driver array (all the same model/load) with the Proprius, what are the limitations of array wiring with the Proprius in terms of inductance, capacitance and impedance? Do you rapidly reach a point with series-parallel wiring where the driver response is adversely affected? Like four big CHR-120 woofers in series-parallel or 20 small Alpair 5 Gen 3 in series-parallel.

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We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2022 at 6:47am
I think you'd be fine. As long as the connections are good the length of cables between your drivers is likely to be quite short compared to running cables across a room between the amp and speakers. But the drivers need to be close together to avoid 'lobing' i.e. peaks and troughs in level.

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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: shashirao
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2023 at 6:33am
Got my set of Proprius amps last week. To start off my listening journey, burning it in with my Esoteric CD player and KEF LS-50 speakers. Everything is digital and sounding fabulous.

Next projects include:
1. Compare the KEF LS-50 bookshelf versus a floor-standing - Magne Planar - see if there is any expansion in soundstage and if it is needed. The KEF bookshelves seem to fill the room adequately...but need to cross off checking the floor standing speakers.

2. Connect my turntable to listen using the Proprius amps with the Accession MC or MM pre amp

3. Connect my Revox PR99 reel player to listen mode

4. Eyeing to purchase the Majestic as the center piece of my music setup.


Posted By: Bags
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2023 at 11:58am
Has anyone used the proprious with 4 ohm loads?

If so, how did they perform?


Posted By: Mikeh
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2023 at 2:14pm
Not 4ohm but my Harbeth P3s are rated at 6ohm. Proprius are flawless powering them.

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Mike

Technics sl1210g with Victor U-2
Accession MM, Majestic + Proprius, Solo ULDE
Cambridge Audio CXC CD player
Lindemann Limetree Bridge streamer
Harbeth P3ESR XD paired with 2x REL t5x


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2023 at 2:21pm
Yes my Magnepans are 4 ohm and low sensitivity. The Proprius amps had no problem and could go much louder than I wanted to listen, without any audible distortion. I hope that helps. Which speakers are you looking at?

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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2023 at 5:04pm
I have driven two sub-8 Ohm speaker drivers in parallel from a Proprius monoblock so the resultant impedance is less than 4 Ohms; no audible loss of sound quality. However, I do not turn the Proprius gain dial all the way up (out of circuit), instead using it at 12 o'clock or lower to contribute to the load impedance and also to lower the noise floor.

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We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.


Posted By: Bags
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2023 at 7:28pm
I have a friend who has some KEF reference speakers who is interested in borrowing my propriuses for a couple of weeks and I just wanted to know that they would be ok with a 4 ohm load.


Posted By: Bags
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2023 at 9:56pm
Any comments from Graham?  Min impedance I believe is 3.2 ohm which is pretty low.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2023 at 12:01am
Originally posted by Bags Bags wrote:

Any comments from Graham?  Min impedance I believe is 3.2 ohm which is pretty low.

No sweat!

Unless you were to compress the transients by turning it way up too high, but I reckon you're much more sensible than me Wink


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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: Bags
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2023 at 8:36pm
Thanks Graham.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2023 at 8:59pm
Graham, is there any limit to line arrays with the Proprius?

For example, if I had 16 of the same driver per channel and each driver has 8 Ohm impedance and I wire a 4x4 series-parallel arrangement on each side, would things still sound good?


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We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.


Posted By: Bags
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2023 at 6:49pm
Just reporting back on my friend trying out my proprius amps with his Kef refs.

As Graham suggested, no sweat.  Those big output caps kept everything nicely in control.




Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2023 at 12:58am
Originally posted by Ash Ash wrote:

Graham, is there any limit to line arrays with the Proprius?

For example, if I had 16 of the same driver per channel and each driver has 8 Ohm impedance and I wire a 4x4 series-parallel arrangement on each side, would things still sound good?

Sorry I missed this post.

It would work, but I cannot comment on the sound you'd get as it would depend on multiple factors of the proposed design.


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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2023 at 8:29am
In terms of impedance, it would be fine.

In terms of inductance, I don't know as I don't understand the physics of inductors/back EMF for series/parallel combinations.

I have four pairs of CHP-90 drivers that I could try a 2x2 series-parallel on each side but it would probably sound worse overall than a single driver per side, especially when you start considering phase shifts and comb effects at different listening positions. Keeping it simple is probably best.


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We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2023 at 9:27am
In series add the inductances together so two identical drivers gives double. In parallel 1/L = 1/L1 + 1/L2. So 4 in series/parallel have same inductance as one driver. No harm to the amp or drivers, just sacrificing two or four cardboard boxes...

Are you experimenting or looking for a particular change in sound from using multiple drivers, Ash? A vertical line array would reduce vertical dispersion and give a higher sound image, albeit with interference patterns as you note.

Usually multiple drivers are for more power handling, coil heating and lower cone excursion. Comb filtering would be a problem at higher frequencies unless you crossover to a single driver. With two drivers In series on a panel/open baffle you could have a capacitor connected across one of the drivers so its output rolls off?



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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2023 at 11:54am
It is true that the amplifier's load can destroy the amplifier should that load be a short circuit, or too low an impedance, or its capacitance or inductance compromises the amplifier's stability.

Therefore, an amplifier ought to be designed with these things taken into consideration.

The output inductor protects against some degree of capacitive short/overload.

The Zobel network compensates for the loss of loading.

And the phase and gain margins must not reduce to, or go beyond zero (or even approach it) when the amplifier is subjected to known difficulties.

Thermal conditions are easily detected simply by touch, and if a particular load results in the heatsink/casework getting hotter than you feeling comfortable with, then maybe something is amiss.

Much of the worry comes about by manufacturers who omit safeguards on the premise that their circuit is "perfect" (which circuits seldom are) or "it sounds better" without them.

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread, and I'd rather fear than look a fool. Having said that, the man who never made a mistake has yet to be born.



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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2023 at 3:43pm
Thank you for the replies.

I was considering multi-way horizontally and vertically with the same driver for a larger image size (potentially) and even less mechanical excursion for the bass. Don't need more power and no need to reduce dispersion. I'll have to try it; cardboard boxes are cheap.


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We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.



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