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Utterly baffled by speaker hum..

Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Turntable Audio
Forum Name: Graham Slee Phono Stages
Forum Description: Questions, answers, and product information zone for Graham Slee Phono Stage Preamps
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5211
Printed Date: 28 Mar 2024 at 10:12pm
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Topic: Utterly baffled by speaker hum..
Posted By: frimmers3
Subject: Utterly baffled by speaker hum..
Date Posted: 01 May 2021 at 7:29pm
cut a long story short....have just got a Naim Nait 5si amp and a lovely pair of Spatia cables...(I know it is not the cables as the problem started before I installed them). I connect my Accession m.m to the tuner input on the Naim. Result? Loud hum from the speakers. When I select the c.d player, all traces of hum disappear. I have checked all the component parts by just having the amp and speakers connected, introducing them one by one, and the "culprit" seems to be the Accession.I have thoroughly checked the inputs and outputs, even using different interconnects, but the hum persists.
Just when I thought it time to give up the ghost,I changed from "stereo" to "mono"....and blow me down with  a feather...the bxxxxy thing is perfect!
This is way beyond my simple grasp of electronics....how could switching from stereo cure/cause this?
Sorry to be an absolute pain!! 


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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.



Replies:
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 01 May 2021 at 7:51pm
Best thing to do is send it back to be thoroughly checked out.

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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: frimmers3
Date Posted: 01 May 2021 at 7:53pm
The amp or the Accession?

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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 01 May 2021 at 11:03pm
Not jumping between forums would be a good start.
If you need technical help ask for it in the right places.
This place is better qualified to answer your questions than many other places.

This where I'm referring to  https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/amplifier-hum-help.1084059/ - https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/amplifier-hum-help.1084059/






Posted By: BAK
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 4:01am
Originally posted by Graham Slee Graham Slee wrote:

Best thing to do is send it back to be thoroughly checked out.

Yes, best to contact John C @ (0) 1909 568739... after 11am, before 2 or 3pm... GMT.
 He would be the one that checks it out completely, as he does with every unit sold before shipping.

 And you could follow the last 2 suggestions on the S...H... forum.

 Your description of the many odd power supplies being positioned close together is a concern.


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Bruce
AT-14SA, Pickering XV-15, Hana EL, Technics SL-1600MK2, Lautus, Majestic DAC, Technics SH-8055 spectrum analyzer, Eminence Beta8A custom cabs; Proprius & Reflex M or C, Enjoy Life your way!


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 6:21am
You identified the Accession as the culprit, so I thought my reply, "Best thing to do is send it back to be thoroughly checked out", should have conveyed that I meant the Accession should be sent back to us.

When you have a manufacturer as approachable, available and open as we are, testified so publicly year after year, I would have thought you would have reached out to us regarding your problem first.

Whereas other products seem to evolve from the far east, we create our products ourselves and know every component's function by name. I don't know if you borrowed the loaner Accession recently, but if you did, you would have spoken to John C. As well as doing UK loan coordination, in our small cottage industry, every product is performance tested by John C.

It is a matter of personal pride that I equipped us with industry-acclaimed Audio Precision performance analysers, even though they cost a massive chunk of what would otherwise be profit. However, rather than batch test, John and I are disciplined in testing every single product because we are sufficiently experienced to know that all components from anywhere and everywhere can sometimes be DOA.

I sometimes wonder why I bothered to write our 'about' page. I suppose, in this deceitful interweb world, anybody could make something like that up? The difference is that every word we say is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Pre-digital analogue radio stations didn't evolve from the far-east - they were created in cottage industry broadcast engineering offshoots, such as Audionics (Sheffield) Ltd, in very much the same way as BBC Engineering.

So did this countries infrastructure (before they tore it down) - genuine engineering companies created it, and I was proud to serve as a subby to the best of them! So, we are not an importer of evolved far-east circuitry without a clue what it does - we created what we do - and so know it inside out.

Did you unplug the turntable input cable to the Accession? Did it still hum? It would help to know.



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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: frimmers3
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 8:09am
I fail to see why I am being taken to task.....I did not "discover" that switching the Accession from "stereo" to "mono" stopped the hum from the speaker until seconds before making my post. Up until then,I was convinced that the "culprit" was the new Naim amp, beingh as that none of the hum occcured when hooking up the same signal path to a Rega Brio or ab Arcam Delta.
I have never disparaged any Graham Slee product,in fact I have sung your praises far and wide,and spent a fair few bob along the way.
Now that is off my chest, I have just as you advised disconnected the P8 from the Accession,and the "hum" does stop.


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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.


Posted By: frimmers3
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 8:30am
A little update....(please bear in mind I am lucky enough to be working full time and bxxxxy long hours,and have had but few hours to try to solve my little problem)...I rescued my "spare" Gold Era V phono stage from workshop this morning...with exactly the same results..the hum is present in the speakers at very moderate levels indeed, and as with the Accession stops completely when the turntable leads from the Rega P8 are disconnected...I have also re-connected both the Rega and Arcam amps in turn, and no hum whatsoever can be detected....I will be the first to acknowledge that my skills and knowledge in the electrical/mechanical field fall a long way short of rudimentary:)

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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 9:11am
Originally posted by frimmers3 frimmers3 wrote:

I fail to see why I am being taken to task.....

You're not Smile




Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 9:33am
Originally posted by frimmers3 frimmers3 wrote:

A little update....(please bear in mind I am lucky enough to be working full time and bxxxxy long hours,and have had but few hours to try to solve my little problem)...I rescued my "spare" Gold Era V phono stage from workshop this morning...with exactly the same results..the hum is present in the speakers at very moderate levels indeed, and as with the Accession stops completely when the turntable leads from the Rega P8 are disconnected...I have also re-connected both the Rega and Arcam amps in turn, and no hum whatsoever can be detected....I will be the first to acknowledge that my skills and knowledge in the electrical/mechanical field fall a long way short of rudimentary:)
The bit in bold points to the issue being upstream of the phono preamp.

Are you using the G1042?
They are very sensitive to picking up electrical noise.
I know because I have one.
When I used it I had a modified tonearm from that company in Essex, and I too had very low level hum.

It turns out that the armtube wasn't properly grounded, for which I cannot point the finger at said company from Essex, as I had the dealer I bought the arm from replace the wiring loom.

Using the G1042 on a SME3009 2imp sorted out the problem completely, but that's SME for you - they always had a handle on properly grounding things.



Posted By: frimmers3
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 9:55am
I am using a Rega Exact....what is perplexing me the most is that when I use exactly the same audio chain with a Rega Brio and an Arcam Delta amp no problem whatsoever exists....the speaker hum only kicks in with the Naim amp. Some have suggested running an earth wire from the Accession phono stage to the mains....this scares me to death because a) is it safe to do so, and b) would it not negate a product warranty?
Thank you for your help,
Steve H.


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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 9:59am
Are you still using the tuner input of the Nait?
Do you get a change in noise using the CD input?


Posted By: frimmers3
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 10:31am
I f I use the Naim tuner or cd input the hum is the same. If I connect my cd player to the cd input of the Naim the problem ceases to exist....no detectable hums or buzzes whatsoever:)

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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by Chris Firth Chris Firth wrote:

Originally posted by frimmers3 frimmers3 wrote:

I fail to see why I am being taken to task.....

You're not Smile



Likewise Smile


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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: John C
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 6:04pm
Hi Steve,

Please give me a call on either of the first two numbers shown at the bottom of every page on the website. Anytime from 10:00 to 19:00, 7 days a week and you should get me and I'll be happy to help.
Alternatively, PM me your number and a convenient time and I'll call you.


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http://www.gspaudio.co.uk - Turntable and Headphone Audio


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 6:36pm
Same happens with the Era Gold V?

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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: frimmers3
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 6:37pm
John.. thank you very much for that kind and considerate reply...this thing is driving me nuts! Will try a call tomorrow at a sensible time...and p.s....those Spatia cables are bloody marvelous!
Best regards,
Steve H.



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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 6:54pm
Can you try connecting the Accession to the AV or HDD inputs please?

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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: frimmers3
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 7:03pm
At work(again)...will  try that as soon as I get home in the morning....Yet to experiment with those inputs....Thank you so much for the help to date....I am sure it is not the Accession that is at "fault" as it works perfectly with the other amplifier thing by hooking it up to s I have available...just seems that the P8/Accession is being halted from doing its renowned thing by hooking it up to the Naim. Again, thanks for your time and trouble....
Steve H.


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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 8:39pm
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a Hi-Fi industry standard for circuit grounding within a product's casing. There is in other branches of electronics! I have learned not to accuse others, but you have to start questioning grounding compatibility when hum rears its ugly head. The ground potential should be zero, source to speaker, and the moment it isn't, hum happens. Every product should have its input common grounded to the case. In a preamp, the output common should run via the circuit to the input common. By making the ground paths short and hefty, both input and output commons in a preamp can be classed as zero ground potential, so the only variable is the signal itself. Interconnects must also ensure this zero impedance or hum will develop. We use a coaxial cable having both copper foil and copper braid to keep the impedance as close to zero as is physically possible. Some designers ground common at some other point in the circuit, and therefore, some amps don't have their input commons grounded to the case. That pushes the ground common to the source equipment, and to be precise, the input terminals where the cartridge signal connects and a 'floating ground' there will add noise (hum). If the arm maker commoned the interconnect screens at the arm end and made that the arm ground, then there'd be no need for a separate 'turntable earth wire'.
However, some arm bases use the SME 5-pin plug socket arrangement, which doesn't make the best grounding contact in the world - it usually gives rise to some hum. Using just one of the screens isn't wise, but an Essex manufacturer seems to do so. Using the mono switch, the ground from one channel might supply the ground of the other. Then again, a lost ground to one channel's '-' cartridge pin might have the same effect (good idea to try a different turntable if available). The turntable manufacturer who also makes a partnering phono stage might have a fix, I as an independent, don't know about. Once a costly phono stage never suffered hum and caused us a lot of head-scratching until we put one on test, and sweeping through the frequencies, suddenly the signal disappeared. The phono stage had a steep notch filter at 50Hz (I guess the US version must have been modded for 60Hz). I wouldn't do that because it screws the bass/mid-phase, but some people liked the (non-high-fidelity) effect.



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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 10:44pm
Usually, power amps use output inductors to prevent a capacitive load from forming a filter pole, pushing the amplifier output so far out of phase that its negative feedback becomes positive. Positive feedback makes an amplifier oscillate and can destroy all the transistors in the circuit.
Naim doesn't use output inductors and warns not to use highly capacitive speaker cables, and the Spatia is suitably low capacitance.
Instead of an output inductor, a resistor of 0.22 ohms is used, preventing a filter pole before the amplifier runs out of current gain and prevents it from oscillating. However, the longer the cables, the higher the capacitance, and the closer the filter pole approaches the frequencies where there is sufficient beta for the onset of oscillation.
Naim also uses a filter on the driver transistor bases to counter negative resistance, without which a small momentary oscillation can occur. It might be sufficient to send the amplifier into instability, and that's why the filter is there.
I design our phono stages to be stable by a conservative amount, but at the same time, to have a reasonable slew rate to reduce slewing induced distortion (SID). Output filtering is a passive 6dB per octave to correct the RIAA (or other EQ) response up into the frequencies beyond our hearing range. Although the stage will not rectify airborne radio frequencies, it does not hard-filter.
This would generally be OK if a properly shielded interconnect were to be used between the phono stage and amp input. Still, if not 100% screened against radio frequency interference, it can be picked up as the phono stage source impedance doesn't drop to zero.
For those who remember being able to tune an ITV 405 line transmission on an FM radio, as it went off-tune, a loud hum was heard - it being the screen refresh or raster frequency, which is synched to the screen frequency (50, 75 or 100 Hz these days).
An emitter follower - which, by the way, is what makes up the output stage of the amp - can often tune to the strongest, most constant airborne interference frequency, even where the transmission frequency is way beyond the transition frequency of a device. The negative resistance filter is there to counter that occurrence, but nothing is perfect.
It's not only TV transmissions that can give rise to hum. Off tune short wave using single-sideband can sometimes modulate with its power supply frequency.
Knowing about all the communications interference that has grown considerably over recent years makes sense for amplifier manufacturers to use output inductors. The use of sensible, fully screened interconnects will help an inductor-less amplifier stay stable.
Radio frequencies can enter the output of an amplifier (preamp or power) and go straight to the input via the negative feedback loop, and that is why many of the boutique interconnects, which might be OK with unity-gain devices such as CD, cause so many problems when a vinyl source is added.



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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: frimmers3
Date Posted: 03 May 2021 at 5:51am
I tried your suggestion Graham at the unearthly hour of 05:50....both the av and hdd inputs unfortunately produced the same net result....very audible hum from the speakers....

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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 03 May 2021 at 9:50am
The two latest posts I wrote were intended to educate 'the reader' in the inner workings of audio electronics. It isn't easy.

The first post illustrates the complete disregard for EMC-proof grounding by companies so rich, it obviously doesn't matter to them!

The second post illustrates amateur electronics, which disobey the laws of Murphy and Sod and quite a few others related to real physics. I tried to be kind but remove the protection circuits, and the amplifier would do what any unstable circuit would do!

The playground which hi-fi became seems to have lifted many a leg, making a few very rich indeed, and I have empathy for Jim Lesurf ( http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/reviews/changes/1975-8.html - http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/reviews/changes/1975-8.html )

("And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.")


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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: frimmers3
Date Posted: 03 May 2021 at 5:57pm
Deep deep joy...got the bxxxxy thing working! As a last resort, moved the Naim to the very bottom of my Atacama four tier unit(I had previously tried the other three with no difference to the speaker hum)..that last 6" made all the difference...hum replaced by a healthy speaker "hiss"(when the Naim is set to "max)...at the volumes I tend to listen to, a complete absence of noise from any part of the system.
I have no idea what type of witchcraft has governed this, bar perhaps the Naim previously being too close the Rega Exact cartridge?
Many many thanks to all those that extended help to this numpty....thank you again!!


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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 03 May 2021 at 6:43pm
Result! Thumbs Up


Posted By: Ernie
Date Posted: 03 May 2021 at 7:53pm
Originally posted by frimmers3 frimmers3 wrote:

Deep deep joy...got the bxxxxy thing working! As a last resort, moved the Naim to the very bottom of my Atacama four tier unit(I had previously tried the other three with no difference to the speaker hum)..that last 6" made all the difference...hum replaced by a healthy speaker "hiss"(when the Naim is set to "max)...at the volumes I tend to listen to, a complete absence of noise from any part of the system.
I have no idea what type of witchcraft has governed this, bar perhaps the Naim previously being too close the Rega Exact cartridge?
Many many thanks to all those that extended help to this numpty....thank you again!!

Looking at images of the 5si the toroid is on the right toward the front of the unit putting it online with the tone arm.

I once saw a Naim set up where the owner had gone to the trouble of staggering the position of the units to keep the toroid out of line with the electronics on the shelf above.

I seem to remember that the magnetic field produced by a toroid is particularly intense above and below it. Now you’ve introduced enough separation between source and victim the problem has gone. Seems to make sense. 


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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


Posted By: frimmers3
Date Posted: 03 May 2021 at 8:23pm
Now the drama is over, and to illustrate just what a "funny" hobby this is.....having got the little beauty working in in its new situ, due to equipment and furniture placement, the Naim remote is now redundant unless I get up from a seated position and take a few steps...and I did like watching that green lit knob going up or down...more thought needed!
Seriously, many many thanks to all those that took the time to try and resolve my problem:)


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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 10:35am
But it didn't happen using the Rega phono preamp.

It stopped when using the Accession mono switch, but it didn't stop using the Era Gold V - which doesn't have a mono switch?

The Accession mono switch places left and right outputs in parallel, decreasing the source impedance driving the interconnect and the Naim input.

There is a piece missing from this jigsaw - you didn't say anything about the interconnect cable.


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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: frimmers3
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 6:47pm
Another example of me failing to understand basics...I made no mention of a Rega phono pre amp? I only tried my lovely Accession and Gold Era V with a Rega Brio amp and an Arcam Delta 290 amp...and all was well. I t was only when hooked up to the Naim that the problem(now solved) became apparent.
As far as interconnects go, the only measure I took was to swap out my Lautus twixt Accession and Naim in case I had in some way damaged them...that was not the case, the Chord cabling displayed the same result(but a much poorer rendition of the hum :) ).....Anyway, all good to go now and I can get down to some serious listening!!
p.s...Whilst doing a quick search for the correct spelling of "Lautus"....there seem to be a few outlets describing the Lautus as a "digital connection".....is that an issue?
Thanks for all the help again,
Very best regards,
Steve H.


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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 7:11pm
Lautus interconnects are simply high purity copper conductors with one or more ferrite cores in the sheath. Lautus can be suitable for analogue or digital; it's the interconnect's impedance determines its suitability for carrying a digital (non-audio) signal. It needs to be 75 Ohms for digital.

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We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.


Posted By: frimmers3
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 7:26pm
Mind at rest....thank you:)

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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 8:25pm
All's well that ends well.



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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by frimmers3 frimmers3 wrote:

Another example of me failing to understand basics...I made no mention of a Rega phono pre amp? I only tried my lovely Accession and Gold Era V with a Rega Brio amp and an Arcam Delta 290 amp...and all was well. I t was only when hooked up to the Naim that the problem(now solved) became apparent.
As far as interconnects go, the only measure I took was to swap out my Lautus twixt Accession and Naim in case I had in some way damaged them...that was not the case, the Chord cabling displayed the same result(but a much poorer rendition of the hum :) ).....Anyway, all good to go now and I can get down to some serious listening!!
p.s...Whilst doing a quick search for the correct spelling of "Lautus"....there seem to be a few outlets describing the Lautus as a "digital connection".....is that an issue?
Thanks for all the help again,
Very best regards,
Steve H.

Only trying to understand the reasons why this happened so if it were to happen again to somebody we might be better equipped to answer.

I must have misread your post, sorry.

Graham


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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: frimmers3
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 9:44pm
No problem at all...only glad that those that have forgotten more about audio 5han I have ever known pitched in to help:)

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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.


Posted By: Ernie
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 10:47pm
Out of interest how about moving the position of the amp? Move it back up the rack but move it so that the toroid (positioned on the right of the unit toward the front) is away from the tone arm and cartridge. I appreciate you may have to hold it in position.

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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


Posted By: frimmers3
Date Posted: 08 May 2021 at 7:19am
Yes, Thanks Ernie...that is exactly what solved the issue...as indicated earlier I had all but given up, trying the Naim on the top, third and second shelf of my Atacama unit to no effect...but moving it just a few inches lower to the bottom shelf removed the "hum" completely.
I have since moved the amp away from the Atacama unit altogether, as far away from the turntable/arm/cartridge as possible....and now more than happy...A "working" Naim plus my new Spatia loudspeaker cable have made listening a joy again!......only problem is...I now have a gap in my Atacama that needs filling(for aesthetic purposes only of course).....


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Rega P8, Exact m.m, Accession m. phono stage, Graham Slee /Chord interconnects, Dali Oberon floor standers.


Posted By: Ernie
Date Posted: 08 May 2021 at 8:46am
Interesting, and so much for the EMC Directive!

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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 08 May 2021 at 9:05am
Unfortunately the EMC Directive doesn't cover many HiFi products, in particular Turntables! 

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Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 08 May 2021 at 10:50am
Originally posted by BackinBlack BackinBlack wrote:

Unfortunately the EMC Directive doesn't cover many HiFi products, in particular Turntables! 

Yes, that's true. Amp and preamp designers must meet EMC and ESD specifications, while turntable, cartridge and arm designers can do what they want. I think interconnects might be exempt too. Makes my job really easy (not).Unhappy


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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 09 May 2021 at 11:18pm
The joys of so-so shielding by some other manufacturers. That said a large mains transformer or motor coil can be problematic. My P3-24's motor induced hum on the excellent Music Maker III cartridge, the latter was not to blame. I ended up fitting a grounding wire on the Premotec motor casing.



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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.



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