Interestingly, the Rega P10 gets rave press reviews but gets put down quite a bit (by possibly people that havent heard one) by turntable enthusiasts as "its just a Rega"

Yes Rega do have a bit of a stigma as a budget company (I have owned a planar 3 myself for nearly 30 years, although it very modified) but does the P10 deserve to be cold shouldered by the VPI, Clearaudio, L*nn etc crowd? 

Any thoughts from owners or anyone that has had the chance to demo? Yes I will get to demo a few when lockdown rules change. Im looking for a bit of a shortlist....and yes the P10 is on it :-)

Thanks

Bill

Good luck with the search...

Probably too much choice and will be difficult to get to listen to them all.

I know the L*nn LP12 is in the price bracket but its the basic model. Having never heard a L*nn I can imagine it to be a lush laidback sounding deck but could be wrong. I would want a bit of life but not sterile....as I play lots of Jazz to underground Techno (yes I am one of those)

So the P10 could be what I need, however the list could comprise of...

Clearaudio Performance DC with Tracer arm

VPI Prime Scout

Gold Note Giglio

Bryston BLP-1

Thorens TD 1601

It may even turn out im happy with my modded planar 3 and save myself a lot of cash lol

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193877419128 -  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193877419128

One thing I would consider is the practical operation of the turntable and whether certain things about it would annoy you. 

I know a couple of people that have dumped very fiddly turntables because they had quirks that simply became too annoying in their environment over time. 

Yeah, I think Rega are unfairly maligned as just a 'plug n play' manufacturer. I know their unwilligness to include VTA adjustment gets up the noses of those who think it's critical and think TT's should be infinitely tweakable. But I think they're impeccably engineered, it just depends whether you like what their low-mass design philosophy gives you - fast, detailed presentation, tending towards the lean.

I don't wide experience to speak authoritatively but I'd second the recommendation of Origin Live,  but I think you'll find it hard to find a complete dud at your budget.

I’m also intrigued by Vertere Acoustics’ TTs.

A few years back, I had a Rega RP3 and I loved it. When the time came to upgrade, I listened to 2 differents turntables : the Rega RP8 and the Clearaudio concept. I must say that the Clearaudio concept impressed me a lot. I felt that the sound was just right. I got lucky and one dealer offered me a Performance DC (with a clarify tonearm and virtuoso cartridge) at a great price. I bought it and I've been happy with it. I think the Performance DC represent a sweet-spot in the Clearaudio line. You have most of the technology without the price tag. 

The only advice I would give you is to be cautious and to listen to a few differents turntables. So much variables are at play with turntables that comparing them is really hard. Often, you have different cartridges (MM, MC) and different phono being used at each dealers. 

Who knows?

Mick.

I actually like the design. Its quite compact, its heavier than I thought it would be (after all the the things ive read ie feather-light), very well put together and engineered. Looks quite classy

Sound wise its very good however in the back of my mind im thinking of the origin live. After doing some digging, the one to get is the Calypso and Illustrious arm. Its a bit more expensive but not terribly so. But....it sound I really need to upgrade the patter and the arm wire which together is another £1000!!!

I did call OL and he said that he does have customers with P10s and they fit their arms with great results

Chatting with a guy on FB today and he was stating that he has a few turntables and explained that he has a P10 which he though was "ok" until he added an Audiomods Series 6 arm and thinks it is now absolutely stunning. Wipes the floor with his L*nn where the arm was originally fitted. This arm doesn't seem to break the bank either. Anyone here had a Series 6?

http://www.audiomods.co.uk/ - http://www.audiomods.co.uk/

So if the the P10 and Series 6 arm (or OL live) is a good combo then it could be the final package. I like the small footprint of the TT and the separate PSU. I am able to try a OL package however it is quite a bit more expensive, then if I really like it but doent want to pay that sort of money I wlll have that "sound" in the back of my mind lol

It’s good that you were able to try this in your own room with your own amps, speakers etc.

I find the thought of listening to different TTs in dealers showrooms with a variety of different amps, speakers &c. to be fraught with difficulty. What are you actually hearing? The turntable? The equipment it is attached to? How does that relate to your own environment?

If I was purchasing a new turntable today I would insist on trying it in my own system before making a decision, especially at the sort of price you are contemplating!

Hope you find a TT that makes you happy for a long time to come.

Les

 

You might want to keep on eye on Origin Live's ebay account. They've recently introduced the Mk 4 versions of their product range and now seem to be auctioning off some Mk3 stock on ebay.

The listings can be misleading, some seem to suggest that you're bidding on refurbished ex-demo stock or similar but I picked up the Resolution TT and Conqueror tonearm recently for a fraction over half price, and, going by the description, was expecting signs of use, but they turned up, both brand spanking new!

I use an Audiomods Series 6 on a Roksan TMS & can thoroughly recommend it.

Very well engineered, built and adjustable.

I used to own a Rega P9 & it was a very good deck - if just a touch lean sounding
and sensitive to vibration.
Its ceramic platter has evolved on the P10 & is great engineering.

Phil

Whether a Series 6 will be significantly better than a RB3000 is a big question, but the Series 6's adjustability is in its favour.

I am ruling out it though only due to the sheer size of it. Great TT though

Having now used the P10 for a week now with a Reflex C/Enigma with a LOMC Sumiko its sounds very good. I wouldn't say its lean at all just no bloat. It pretty much does everything very well, but have been informed buy another P10 user that adding a Audiomods Series 6 made a massive difference

The P10 suits me ie size, separate psu/speed change, cover etc. If the foundations of the P10 are that good and it can be improved considerably by a better arm then its the TT for me. But is it that good?

How would it stack to an Aurora or Calypso (however that is more expensive) with their upgraded platter.

More research me thinks lol

The only criticism I ever hear about Rega is that some find their sound a bit lean and lacking in meat but if you're not finding that to be the case then it sounds like you'd be more than happy living with a P10, especially given you have some recommended upgrades to try out.

To be honest (and speaking as an Origin Live owner myself), with Rega's bigger production runs bringing costs down, I wouldn't expect an Origin Live to outdo a Rega at a comparable price point.

vinyljunki wrote: What Origin live package do you have?

I picked up a new old stock Resolution and Conqueror quite recently for 1/2 price. Even though it's capable of doing much more than the rest of my system will currently allow it to do I was still very impressed with the difference it made, all with the same cartridge I had been using before.

But spec-wise you don't get much more with the Resolution over the Calypso, considering the £1000 price difference. They share the same motor, bearing and platter, you just get an extra layer of chassis dampening and an upgraded armboard, IIRC.

I've heard good things about the platter and power supply upgrades, but they're not cheap either.

Wow, now thats a good deal. The conqueror is a serious arm. As I say, I have an eye on an Illustrious mk4 (next one down to the Conqueror). What are your impressions on it? I dont suppose you have compared it to an rb3000?

No, afraid I haven't, in fact the only thing I have compared it against is the Rega P25/rb600 which it replaced, and it blows that out of the water, but then so it should, it's several times the price and is 20 years younger.

I might at some point install the rb600 on the Resolution, and find out whether the TT or tonearm is more responsible for the improvement that I'm hearing.

I am looking at a second arm for my Nottingham Analogue TT which I may get another OL arm as I think they are very good for the money.

Phil

So how did the Rega P10 fair? Well in the end, It actually fell short of my modified Rega Planar 3!!!! Its not something I expected and took me a long time to pull myself away from convincing myself the P10 was better when it wasnt.

It has since gone back and my plans have change slightly. I have put in an order for an Audiomods Series 6 arm. I will add this to current deck and evaluate if I need to change the TT down the line

The RB3000 on the P10 was a better tracker though. I do still have 1 or 2 issues with my current deck. 

A little late to the parade, but Origin Live allow a 60 day demo of all their products.

Whichever TT you go for, demo the Zephyr with the silver wire upgrade.

It will make you sit up and take notice!

I am running mine on a modified P3 and it's simply stunning!

Each to their own though.

However if I had my time again I’d save a lot of wasted time & expense by going straight for a Technics 1200G. 

By far the best turntable under £10000.  Yes it looks like a DJ deck.  Knocks 401’s & LP12’s into a cocked hat. 

No fettling, servicing or upgrading required. 

Just perfect information retrieval every single time. 

Please try one before you waste your time & money like I did!

A good point and interesting question Rich. And if I didn't have a Michell Gorbe with SME IV arm and a 1210/II I would be tempted to buy a 1200G.

As well as R&D costs, the manufacturing cost will be higher, so I guess they see no financial interest in it.

what other high end turntable manufacture is using DD? there must be a reason for this, and cost does not come into it when you are looking at turntables with a price of a house or a luxury car. Goldmund Reference ll cost £165000 and that is belt drive another one AV Designhaus Derenvilla £460000 also belt drive why are these not DD?

Small companies do not have the R&D or manufacturing economies of scale to make a DD deck, usually. If they are making one, they have to source the motor from a third party usually, and then charge $$$ for their final product. It's why a VPI DD deck costs $15-30K and their belt drives are much less than that, and they mostly sell belt drives.

Even one of the most expensive tonearm companies in the world (SAT out of Sweden) could not figure out how to make their own DD motor for their turntable. They basically take a Technics model, then harvest the motor and motor control system for their own turntable.

Most of the motors used in belt drive turntables are off the shelf industrial motors. Many of them are fairly cheap. VPI uses a $28 motor on one of their $6K BD turntables. Companies like Rega and P******t, that purchase massive bulk quantities of Premontec/Allied Motion/etc. motors, are able to get the per piece cost down even cheaper than that.

I agree with your points. To be fair the volumes of turntable sales are much much lower now than in the 1970's and 1980's, when our optical friends arrived.

That is absolutely true. Those volumes allowed the technology in DD turntables to be developed back in the 70s and 80s. The other day someone was asking why Technics can't make a brand new $500 turntable with auto features like they did in 1978.

Just not possible today. Besides inflation, they just don't have the volumes. So we get the re-launched Technics as a niche "prestige brand" where the point of entry is $1,000 and goes up from there. Also a very pared down product lineup.

The Sheffield-made SMD Acoustics Idler Drive turntable appeared a few years ago & looked like a very interesting new design, if pricey.
Not heard much about this deck recently, hopefully they are still in business.