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So which turntable?

Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Turntable Audio
Forum Name: High Fidelity Turntable User
Forum Description: Technical Q&A, hints and tips
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5166
Printed Date: 11 Apr 2021 at 8:37pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: So which turntable?
Posted By: vinyljunki
Subject: So which turntable?
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 9:00pm
Ive been looking around at what "the best" turntable is for around £4000. Yes I understand best is very subjective...however

Interestingly, the Rega P10 gets rave press reviews but gets put down quite a bit (by possibly people that havent heard one) by turntable enthusiasts as "its just a Rega"

Yes Rega do have a bit of a stigma as a budget company (I have owned a planar 3 myself for nearly 30 years, although it very modified) but does the P10 deserve to be cold shouldered by the VPI, Clearaudio, L*nn etc crowd? 

Any thoughts from owners or anyone that has had the chance to demo? Yes I will get to demo a few when lockdown rules change. Im looking for a bit of a shortlist....and yes the P10 is on it :-)

Thanks
Bill



Replies:
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 9:26pm
£4K will give you a pretty big choice.
Good luck with the search...


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Kevin
European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France.


Posted By: vinyljunki
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by CageyH CageyH wrote:

£4K will give you a pretty big choice.
Good luck with the search...

Probably too much choice and will be difficult to get to listen to them all.

I know the L*nn LP12 is in the price bracket but its the basic model. Having never heard a L*nn I can imagine it to be a lush laidback sounding deck but could be wrong. I would want a bit of life but not sterile....as I play lots of Jazz to underground Techno (yes I am one of those)

So the P10 could be what I need, however the list could comprise of...

Clearaudio Performance DC with Tracer arm
VPI Prime Scout
Gold Note Giglio
Bryston BLP-1
Thorens TD 1601

It may even turn out im happy with my modded planar 3 and save myself a lot of cash lol



Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 10:12pm
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193877419128 -  Only a grand over budget
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193877419128 -  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193877419128


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Ifor
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Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Suggs
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2021 at 7:19am
I would go for the best that you can afford from the Origin Live line, both their turntables and arms offer exceptional value for money and easily compete with models costing way more from other manufacturers IMO. Their performance is exactly what you want judging from your description of the sound that you like


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Derek


Posted By: patientot
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2021 at 4:04pm
No real recommendation. I'll just say I wouldn't spend that amount of money on anything without being able to at least demo it first. 

One thing I would consider is the practical operation of the turntable and whether certain things about it would annoy you. 

I know a couple of people that have dumped very fiddly turntables because they had quirks that simply became too annoying in their environment over time. 


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Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.


Posted By: Oblongus
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2021 at 7:30pm
Yeah, I think Rega are unfairly maligned as just a 'plug n play' manufacturer. I know their unwilligness to include VTA adjustment gets up the noses of those who think it's critical and think TT's should be infinitely tweakable. But I think they're impeccably engineered, it just depends whether you like what their low-mass design philosophy gives you - fast, detailed presentation, tending towards the lean.

I don't wide experience to speak authoritatively but I'd second the recommendation of Origin Live,  but I think you'll find it hard to find a complete dud at your budget.



Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2021 at 7:44pm
Based on totally unfounded prejudices I would not look at Rega or Project, but I would definitely consider Origin Live, Analogue Works and Inspire HiFi.

I’m also intrigued by Vertere Acoustics’ TTs.


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Ifor
=====
Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Godra
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2021 at 7:53pm
I have no experience with Origin live turntable. Here in Canada, there is not a lot of dealer around carrying them. But I'd like to listen to one eventually. I also heard good thing about Avid turntable.

A few years back, I had a Rega RP3 and I loved it. When the time came to upgrade, I listened to 2 differents turntables : the Rega RP8 and the Clearaudio concept. I must say that the Clearaudio concept impressed me a lot. I felt that the sound was just right. I got lucky and one dealer offered me a Performance DC (with a clarify tonearm and virtuoso cartridge) at a great price. I bought it and I've been happy with it. I think the Performance DC represent a sweet-spot in the Clearaudio line. You have most of the technology without the price tag. 

The only advice I would give you is to be cautious and to listen to a few differents turntables. So much variables are at play with turntables that comparing them is really hard. Often, you have different cartridges (MM, MC) and different phono being used at each dealers. 


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Clearaudio Performance DC with Clarify tonearm + Virtuoso V2, Tannoy Legacy Eaton, Accession MM and BAT VK300Xse


Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2021 at 9:43pm
I think the price category were talking it’s not a case of better or worse, just different. You just need to find the “different” you like. Having said that, I sometimes wonder if I’d chosen a different turntable than the RP8 in the same price category, would I be just as happy? I went listening before I purchased and my head was filled with the relatively small differences between them (I felt cartridges were making a more substantial difference than tables). Maybe they were small enough that after a few weeks I’d have forgotten about them and just gotten on with the job of listening to music.
Who knows?
Mick.


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Rega RP8 - Apheta 2 - Accession MC Enigma PS -Solo ULDE (Focal Utopia) - Proprius - PMC Twenty5.22


Posted By: vinyljunki
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2021 at 10:00pm
A little bit out of the blue,but my local dealer had a P10 they just received and brought around at the weekend for me to live with it for a couple of weeks.

I actually like the design. Its quite compact, its heavier than I thought it would be (after all the the things ive read ie feather-light), very well put together and engineered. Looks quite classy

Sound wise its very good however in the back of my mind im thinking of the origin live. After doing some digging, the one to get is the Calypso and Illustrious arm. Its a bit more expensive but not terribly so. But....it sound I really need to upgrade the patter and the arm wire which together is another £1000!!!

I did call OL and he said that he does have customers with P10s and they fit their arms with great results

Chatting with a guy on FB today and he was stating that he has a few turntables and explained that he has a P10 which he though was "ok" until he added an Audiomods Series 6 arm and thinks it is now absolutely stunning. Wipes the floor with his L*nn where the arm was originally fitted. This arm doesn't seem to break the bank either. Anyone here had a Series 6?

http://www.audiomods.co.uk/ - http://www.audiomods.co.uk/

So if the the P10 and Series 6 arm (or OL live) is a good combo then it could be the final package. I like the small footprint of the TT and the separate PSU. I am able to try a OL package however it is quite a bit more expensive, then if I really like it but doent want to pay that sort of money I wlll have that "sound" in the back of my mind lol


Posted By: less
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2021 at 10:22pm
Originally posted by vinyljunki vinyljunki wrote:

A little bit out of the blue,but my local dealer had a P10 they just received and brought around at the weekend for me t live with it for a couple of weeks.

It’s good that you were able to try this in your own room with your own amps, speakers etc.

I find the thought of listening to different TTs in dealers showrooms with a variety of different amps, speakers &c. to be fraught with difficulty. What are you actually hearing? The turntable? The equipment it is attached to? How does that relate to your own environment?

If I was purchasing a new turntable today I would insist on trying it in my own system before making a decision, especially at the sort of price you are contemplating!

Hope you find a TT that makes you happy for a long time to come.

Les
 


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I don't do mediocrity!

Les Sutherland


Posted By: Oblongus
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2021 at 11:56pm
You might want to keep on eye on Origin Live's ebay account. They've recently introduced the Mk 4 versions of their product range and now seem to be auctioning off some Mk3 stock on ebay.

The listings can be misleading, some seem to suggest that you're bidding on refurbished ex-demo stock or similar but I picked up the Resolution TT and Conqueror tonearm recently for a fraction over half price, and, going by the description, was expecting signs of use, but they turned up, both brand spanking new!


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2021 at 7:42am
Originally posted by vinyljunki vinyljunki wrote:


This arm doesn't seem to break the bank either. Anyone here had a Series 6?
http://www.audiomods.co.uk/ - http://www.audiomods.co.uk/


I use an Audiomods Series 6 on a Roksan TMS & can thoroughly recommend it.
Very well engineered, built and adjustable.

I used to own a Rega P9 & it was a very good deck - if just a touch lean sounding
and sensitive to vibration.
Its ceramic platter has evolved on the P10 & is great engineering.




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Elevator, Accession M, Majestic/Enigma, Reflex M, CuSat & Lautus.


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2021 at 10:36am
Take a look at Acoustic Signature turntables too.
If the superb performance of their MCX1 cartridge is typical of their products they are worth
serious consideration.




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Elevator, Accession M, Majestic/Enigma, Reflex M, CuSat & Lautus.


Posted By: Philmack
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2021 at 10:23pm
£4k gets you a very good turntable and the choice is endless, I have had a lot over the past 32 years including Rega, L*nn, Michell, SRM, Avid, Mofi and Nottingham Analogue. My favourite is Nottingham Analogue, I believe it to be the best bang for buck available today but you must audition when possible. Good luck with the search.

Phil


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Nottingham Analogue Space 294, Wand+, Hana SH, Slee Accession M, Custom PSE 300B mono blocks, Ascension speakers, Slee Lautus ICs, Atlas Speaker cables.


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2021 at 8:53am
Incidentally the RB1000 arm on the Rega P9 was excellent & the latest RB3000 on the P10
should be even better.
The only thing about these arms is the lack of height adjustment & some carts are very sensitive to VTA.
Whether a Series 6 will be significantly better than a RB3000 is a big question, but the Series 6's adjustability is in its favour.




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Elevator, Accession M, Majestic/Enigma, Reflex M, CuSat & Lautus.


Posted By: vinyljunki
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2021 at 8:38pm
Strangely, the TT that was playing when I heard a Slee EGV (many moons ago now) was a Nottingham Analogue. Its a beast of a turntable, and agree that you get a lot for your cash

I am ruling out it though only due to the sheer size of it. Great TT though


Posted By: vinyljunki
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2021 at 8:45pm
If I do end up with a P10 then either a Series 6 of an Origin Live Illustrious Arm are on my list to replace the rb3000

Having now used the P10 for a week now with a Reflex C/Enigma with a LOMC Sumiko its sounds very good. I wouldn't say its lean at all just no bloat. It pretty much does everything very well, but have been informed buy another P10 user that adding a Audiomods Series 6 made a massive difference




Posted By: vinyljunki
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2021 at 8:56pm
Im really liking the P10 now, but disregarding the arms, I wonder how a P10 (TT, plater. PSU) stacks up against an Origin Live TT without the arm

The P10 suits me ie size, separate psu/speed change, cover etc. If the foundations of the P10 are that good and it can be improved considerably by a better arm then its the TT for me. But is it that good?

How would it stack to an Aurora or Calypso (however that is more expensive) with their upgraded platter.

More research me thinks lol


Posted By: Oblongus
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 9:43am
The only criticism I ever hear about Rega is that some find their sound a bit lean and lacking in meat but if you're not finding that to be the case then it sounds like you'd be more than happy living with a P10, especially given you have some recommended upgrades to try out.

To be honest (and speaking as an Origin Live owner myself), with Rega's bigger production runs bringing costs down, I wouldn't expect an Origin Live to outdo a Rega at a comparable price point.


Posted By: vinyljunki
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 12:24pm
What Origin live package do you have?


Posted By: Oblongus
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by vinyljunki vinyljunki wrote:

What Origin live package do you have?


I picked up a new old stock Resolution and Conqueror quite recently for 1/2 price. Even though it's capable of doing much more than the rest of my system will currently allow it to do I was still very impressed with the difference it made, all with the same cartridge I had been using before.

But spec-wise you don't get much more with the Resolution over the Calypso, considering the £1000 price difference. They share the same motor, bearing and platter, you just get an extra layer of chassis dampening and an upgraded armboard, IIRC.

I've heard good things about the platter and power supply upgrades, but they're not cheap either.


Posted By: vinyljunki
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by Oblongus Oblongus wrote:

Originally posted by vinyljunki vinyljunki wrote:

What Origin live package do you have?


I picked up a new old stock Resolution and Conqueror quite recently for 1/2 price. Even though it's capable of doing much more than the rest of my system will currently allow it to do I was still very impressed with the difference it made, all with the same cartridge I had been using before.

But spec-wise you don't get much more with the Resolution over the Calypso, considering the £1000 price difference. They share the same motor, bearing and platter, you just get an extra layer of chassis dampening and an upgraded armboard, IIRC.

I've heard good things about the platter and power supply upgrades, but they're not cheap either.

Wow, now thats a good deal. The conqueror is a serious arm. As I say, I have an eye on an Illustrious mk4 (next one down to the Conqueror). What are your impressions on it? I dont suppose you have compared it to an rb3000?


Posted By: Oblongus
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 10:30pm
No, afraid I haven't, in fact the only thing I have compared it against is the Rega P25/rb600 which it replaced, and it blows that out of the water, but then so it should, it's several times the price and is 20 years younger.

I might at some point install the rb600 on the Resolution, and find out whether the TT or tonearm is more responsible for the improvement that I'm hearing.


Posted By: Philmack
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 6:54pm
I had the OL Conqueror MK3C tonearm on an Avid Sequel SP TT and Benzmicro Gullwing SLR cart, I have to say it was a fantastic arm which elevated the the Sequel up a few notches in comparison to the SME 309 that it replaced. 
I am looking at a second arm for my Nottingham Analogue TT which I may get another OL arm as I think they are very good for the money.

Phil


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Nottingham Analogue Space 294, Wand+, Hana SH, Slee Accession M, Custom PSE 300B mono blocks, Ascension speakers, Slee Lautus ICs, Atlas Speaker cables.


Posted By: vinyljunki
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 9:31pm
So after a good few weeks, where am I? In that time I tested 4 phono stages (3 slee and 1 Leema), 2 decks, 2 PSUs and 2 cartridges.

So how did the Rega P10 fair? Well in the end, It actually fell short of my modified Rega Planar 3!!!! Its not something I expected and took me a long time to pull myself away from convincing myself the P10 was better when it wasnt.

It has since gone back and my plans have change slightly. I have put in an order for an Audiomods Series 6 arm. I will add this to current deck and evaluate if I need to change the TT down the line

The RB3000 on the P10 was a better tracker though. I do still have 1 or 2 issues with my current deck. 




Posted By: Ajmvet
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 7:07pm
A little late to the parade, but Origin Live allow a 60 day demo of all their products.
Whichever TT you go for, demo the Zephyr with the silver wire upgrade.
It will make you sit up and take notice!
I am running mine on a modified P3 and it's simply stunning!
Each to their own though.



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