A move to the dark side
Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Turntable Audio
Forum Name: MM: Moving Magnet | MC: Moving Coil
Forum Description: Learn about the differences between moving magnet and moving coil cartridges here
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5102
Printed Date: 26 Mar 2026 at 11:13pm Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: A move to the dark side
Posted By: 300BGB
Subject: A move to the dark side
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2020 at 10:33pm
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Hi all,
Please help me choose a direction.
I'm at a junction, do I upgrade down the MM path or go to the dark side?
The dark side entry fee would be, maybe, the Elevator with PSU, so £800 then a reasonable MC at say £500 to £1000.
This gives me a budget of £800 to £1800 to remain on the MM path.
So, is the investment in MC worthy of a MM at the £1800 level?
So, what MC cartridges would best a £1800 MM cartridge?
And... What are your recommendations for a MM in the £800+ level?
It seems the dark side entry fee is high and given the laws of diminishing returns etc. I don't understand how the path to the MC side can be made rationally?
Many thanks PS
Current system:
Well Tempered Lab Simplex table Accession MM Reson Mica Nagaoka mp110 AT-VM95SH
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Replies:
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2020 at 10:58pm
just put it out of your mind! 😉
------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 2:58am
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Don’t forget that you can change the stylus on an MM, and quite a few MI cartridges, making the cost of ownership cheaper.
For a good MI, but without a replaceable stylus, I think I would look at the Cartridge Man Music Master. This will set you back £1850. Just bear in mind that the creator of this wonderful cartridge has sadly passed away.
Other options are the Nagaoka MP500, Audio Note IQ1, 2 or 3, AT VM760SLC, Grado Reference, Goldring 2400 and the 2M Black or Bronze, to name a few options.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 7:01am
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Hi, I agree with everything Kevin has said. Music Maker cartridges are a delight. Also, if you really like the sound of MM, why change at all? Is it possible to visit a few dealers and listen to what MC does, to make sure it's an improvement to your ears, not just a sideways "different"?
I used Ortofon 2M Bronze and Black interchangeably (same body, different stylus, meaning you can own both for the cost of one, plus a stylus) with a Reflex M. I was very happy for quite a while. The Black in particular had fantastic detail retrieval in addition to that "meat on the bones" thing MM does so well.
I then purchased an Elevator EXP because I was offered a Rega Apheta 2 at an excellent price. I really liked what it did - great rhythm, fantastic detail. However, it doesn't do quite the same solidity the MM's did. On balance though, I was hooked. That's what I mean by if you really like what MM does, a move to MC might be sideways.
I have since purchased an Accession MC and I'm in heaven. BUT!!! When this cartridge needs replacing it's going to be a LOT more expensive than buying another 2M Black stylus. Had I have stayed with MM, I'd own more records, so...
Go and listen to MC systems and see if you like it? Good luck! Mick.
------------- Rega RP8 - Apheta 2 - Accession MC Enigma PS -Solo ULDE (Focal Utopia) - PS Audio M700 - Fical Kanta No2
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 10:24am
if you did want to venture to the dark side, then Audio Technica offer some very good value for money MC cartridges.
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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Posted By: pcourtney
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 6:13pm
I have stayed with MM ( well Moving Iron in my case) after 40 years, even though I have heard some excellent MC playback systems in the last 10 years, it is just not enough of a light and day moment for me, but then I'm 60 years old now, and spending more money on vinyl is more pleasurable to me than chasing the last 2% of SQ
------------- GS Accession MM Pre, Red Wine Audio Signature 30.2 Amp and AKG K-1000 headphones
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Posted By: lfc jon
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 7:12pm
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Hi I agree with ICL1P I have the Ortofon 2M Bronze It's a bit on the bright side but in my system it sounds fine, some have had tracking issues with it but again it's been fine with me. I'm using it with Reflex M with PSU1 so with Accession MM it should sound even better. One person on this forum did have issues with tracking and replaced it with the Black because he liked the sound of the Bronze but got a bit more If you know what I mean. Going MC is expensive and like above spending my money on more vinyl is more pleasurable. Hope this helps you
Jonathan
------------- Reflex M, Solo (both with PSU-1) CuSat50, Lautus, Spatia & Spatia links cables. Ortofon Bronze.
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Posted By: patientot
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 7:16pm
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I would try to hear some MC systems, if at all possible, to decide if the change is worth it for you.
One thing you might consider, is trying to get someone to lend you a spare MC cart, then borrowing the Elevator or one of the GS MC preamps to try things out in your own system.
Alternatively, you could buy an MC, try it out with GS loaner gear, and if you don't like the result you can sell the MC cart at a small loss as a lightly used item.
------------- SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM610 MONO, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2020 at 12:29pm
While for some a compromise to far there is HOMC, I have not looked back from swapping my Ortofon 2m Black for a Hanna SH, not as bright, more musical and also it seems to be a better tracker than my 2M Blacks were.
------------- Steve
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Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is.
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2020 at 12:53pm
ServerBaboon wrote:
While for some a compromise to far there is HOMC, I have not looked back from swapping my Ortofon 2m Black for a Hanna SH, not as bright, more musical and also it seems to be a better tracker than my 2M Blacks were.
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Great suggestion IMO 
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: patientot
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2020 at 6:32pm
ServerBaboon wrote:
While for some a compromise to far there is HOMC, I have not looked back from swapping my Ortofon 2m Black for a Hanna SH, not as bright, more musical and also it seems to be a better tracker than my 2M Blacks were.
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HOMC is certainly a way to dip one's toe in the water without buying extra equipment.
The most popular HOMC I know of is the Denon DL-110, which IIRC costs around $200-250. Certainly an affordable entry point.
And while I'm not personally a huge fan of the DL-110, a lot of folks are.
------------- SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM610 MONO, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2020 at 10:26pm
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I really like my Hana SL (I'm on the 2nd one now) and would certainly consider a Hana SH as Steve suggested above.
------------- Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Posted By: Godra
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2020 at 1:55am
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I would also look at Soundsmith cartridge (moving iron cartridge). They make high output version of some of there cartridge. Also, you can rebuild/retip your cartridge for a fix fee. This make them less costly than moving coil cartridge.
------------- Clearaudio Performance DC with Clarify tonearm + Virtuoso V2, Tannoy Legacy Eaton, Accession MM and BAT VK300Xse
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Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2020 at 8:08am
My IQ3 has just died so thanks for the Hana & Soundsmith recs.
If anyone has compared the Hana EL/H & SL/H your thoughts are welcome.
------------- Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.
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Posted By: 300BGB
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2020 at 10:24am
many thanks everyone, I value all your feedback 
I was sat listening to the Verve Ella and Louis LP track "Can't We Be Friends" and just smiled with joy, what a great partnership and no thought about how much better it could sound with another piece of kit.
That said, I'm staying with MM at the moment and will take a very small step up the Audio Technica food chain with VM540ML first as is and then with a modified cartridge body. I'll keep you posted on how the two variants sounds
ll
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Posted By: lfc jon
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2020 at 7:40pm
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I have been thinking of up grading but with Xmas come and money being tight I sat down the other day and listen to BANKS on vinyl and thought I'm going to spend my money on more music, I was liking what I was hearing and as I said previously I get more pleasure out of buying new music these days. 300BGB I think you are going the right way about it up grading in small steps that way you don't make a very expensive mistake as with going MC if you don't get what you thought you would get out of it.
------------- Reflex M, Solo (both with PSU-1) CuSat50, Lautus, Spatia & Spatia links cables. Ortofon Bronze.
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Posted By: Godra
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2020 at 10:12pm
Keeping a moving magnet is a wise choice. Installing them is way less fussy than moving coil/moving iron I owned. For me, its a big plus!
------------- Clearaudio Performance DC with Clarify tonearm + Virtuoso V2, Tannoy Legacy Eaton, Accession MM and BAT VK300Xse
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Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 7:23am
CageyH wrote:
For a good MI, but without a replaceable stylus, I think I would look at the Cartridge Man Music Master. This will set you back £1850. Just bear in mind that the creator of this wonderful cartridge has sadly passed away. |
It is a beautiful sounding cartridge. Knowing it is now irreplaceable after Len Gregory's sad passing, mine is used with extra care and appreciation.
------------- Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.
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Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 10:29am
RichW wrote:
My IQ3 has just died so thanks for the Hana & Soundsmith recs.
If anyone has compared the Hana EL/H & SL/H your thoughts are welcome.
| FWIW I've done 18 videos with a Hana EL which you can find https://musicandvinyl.blogspot.com/search/label/Hana%20EL?view=flipcard - here .
I'd also give a thumbs up for Soundsmith. I have a low output https://musicandvinyl.blogspot.com/search/label/Soundsmith%20Zephyr%20MIMC%20Star?view=flipcard - Zephyr but their high output models are great too.
------------- Bob
Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 10:35am
Thanks Bob.
------------- Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.
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Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 11:15am
Godra wrote:
Keeping a moving magnet is a wise choice. Installing them is way less fussy than moving coil/moving iron I owned. For me, its a big plus! |
In MC's defence I must say that the Ortofon Cadenza is the easiest cart I've had to install. Parallel sides, an easily visible cantilever and threaded screw fixing holes make accurate setup much easier than some. A good stylus guard helps & it isn't fussy about loading.
Some carts - some very expensive ones - with rounded bodies, barely visible cantilevers, no stylus guards, nut & bolt fixing etc. can be very tricky to setup.
------------- Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.
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Posted By: nemu
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 8:33am
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A really great cartridge for the Accession MC I would like to recomend ist the Goldring Ethos. It sounds very natural, not beeing to bright. The build quality is really great in my opinion. Listening to live records like recordings in small jazz clubs is a real pleasure. I enjoy the combination Accession MC and Goldring Ethos very much.
This combination brings light into the darkness!
Stephan
------------- Accession MM (PSU1), Accession MC (Enigma PSU1)
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Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2020 at 8:27am
Something of a 'dark horse' is the Goldring Ethos , good things are said about it.
Ironic to call MCs the dark side when they have a reputation of a rising treble..
------------- Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.
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Posted By: nemu
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 9:54am
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Comparing the Goldring Ethos to other great MC cartridges like VdH Colibri, Kiseki Purple Heart or Ortofon Cadenza Black, the treble is much more softer. Therefore my suggestion if you want to move to the dark side.
The Goldring Ethos is a really great cartridge and a bargain compared to the cartridges I mentioned above.
Stephan
------------- Accession MM (PSU1), Accession MC (Enigma PSU1)
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Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 3:29pm
Great recommendation Stephan.
------------- Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.
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Posted By: nemu
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2020 at 3:50pm
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I am just listening to „Ben Webster Meets Gerry Muligan“. What a great pleasure, listening with the Goldring Ethos. I wish you all a happy Christmas. Stephan
------------- Accession MM (PSU1), Accession MC (Enigma PSU1)
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Posted By: less
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 10:54pm
morris_minor wrote:
RichW wrote:
My IQ3 has just died so thanks for the Hana & Soundsmith recs.
If anyone has compared the Hana EL/H & SL/H your thoughts are welcome.
| FWIW I've done 18 videos with a Hana EL which you can find https://musicandvinyl.blogspot.com/search/label/Hana%20EL?view=flipcard - here .
I'd also give a thumbs up for Soundsmith. I have a low output https://musicandvinyl.blogspot.com/search/label/Soundsmith%20Zephyr%20MIMC%20Star?view=flipcard - Zephyr but their high output models are great too.
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Yes Bob, I’ve just discovered a couple of your vids with the Zephyr! Got me drooling you have, bad man 
------------- I don't do mediocrity!
Les Sutherland
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 5:30pm
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Has anybody managed to compare any of the following?
Hana ML Goldring Ethos Audio Technical Art-9
------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ
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