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Offer burned in products

Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Find what you're looking for here!
Forum Name: Buying a headphone amp, phono preamp or hi-fi accessory?
Forum Description: Find what you're looking for here! Links to our websites and more...
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4880
Printed Date: 29 Mar 2024 at 3:35pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Offer burned in products
Posted By: GoetzSB
Subject: Offer burned in products
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 3:08pm
Dear Graham Slee Team

I have just ordered a Reflex M from the nice guys at PhonoPhono Berlin. But it took me a while. Why? Because I am not sure it is the right choice. Will it fit into my chain? Will I like the sound?

Now I can, in theory, test the device and return it within two weeks if I do not like it. This is the law in Germany, very advantageous for consumers. However it will not help. Having read Graham's excellent article on burning in devices, it will take at least three weeks before the Reflex will reveal its true quality.

Therefore the following idea: could gsp not offer burned-in devices for a premium? I for my part would be happy to pay 10%-20% more for a device that has already been burned in, so I can enjoy - and assess - its true quality right from the start. 

It is like good wine dealers: you can buy a young wine or you can choose an older, more refined vintage of the same wine for a premium.

What do other forum members think of the idea?

Best
Götz



Replies:
Posted By: kgilroy
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 3:24pm
Graham Slee has a great loaner program that you could use instead to evaluate the Reflex before committing to purchase.

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Keith

Marantz TT-15S1, Maestro V2, Accession MM, Icon Audio Stereo 40 Mk lll, Wharfedale Jade 3.

Mac Mini, BitPerfect, Dynaudio Xeo2

Marantz SA-15S1, Apple TV, Cambridge CXA60, B&W DM2000, REL Sub


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by GoetzSB GoetzSB wrote:

...it will take at least three weeks before the Reflex will reveal its true quality.

Use it for 10 days straight, left on even when not playing, and then switch back to your existing stage. You will then know what to do.


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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 5:55pm
The Reflex M on the European loaner scheme has been well and truly run in.
I am happy to help if you want to borrow something.


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Kevin
European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 7:22pm
Time left powered on is part of the "burn-in" process. After quite a bit of use from new, the electronics improve from their "brand new state" but will not stay in their optimum state once powered down for a considerable period of time and will have to be powered up again for some time until they return to the optimum state. It's based on capacitor charging/discharging and stored energy held within the electronic components. I would envisage that they could influence impulse/phase response and distortion audible in signal reproduction.

From new, the electronics probably takes a few weeks to reach optimum charged stable state but after this period has passed, the power-on period needed to restore the charged stable state is probably reduced to a few days, depending on how long the electronics have been off.


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 10:44am
Burn in and warm up is still questioned by some of the more assertive & vocal sections of the hifi
'fraternity'.
Do they have ears?






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Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.


Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by RichW RichW wrote:

Burn in and warm up is still questioned by some of the more assertive & vocal sections of the hifi
'fraternity'.
Do they have ears?


No, just ill founded and overbearing opinions.

As to the question of pre-burned in equipment, I would rather hear the burn in process for myself. It's all a part of the enjoyment of our pastime. The loan scheme equipment provides the opportunity to hear burnt in units with no obligations, apart from returning it, that is.

Ian


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Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 9:33pm
Many electromechanical systems must be energised or operated for a certain period of time before they reach an optimum and consistent output state. It is simple physics/kinematics; I do not work in any professional field but the rational side of me accepts this as fact and I am confident that experiments could be devised to validate the existence of a "run-in" period.

From a newly powered-on electrostatic speaker panel to brand new shoes on a person's feet, it is obvious that materials undergo changes through use. Those that cannot contemplate this are like "flat-earth" believers that refuse to consider the possibility of a round Earth even when presented with plentiful evidence that supports a new principle. Cognitive dissonance and bias. You cannot reason with that kind of thinking.


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2020 at 9:06am
Some of the denial is probably solely an intention to be deliberately & provocatively contrarian and 'edgy' on forums and elsewhere. 
Some also advocate the use of bent coat hangers as interconnects & lawnmower flex speaker cable.Ermm




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Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2020 at 8:34pm
I agree. Listening is believing.


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.



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