I revived a dead thread but think the title may be limiting views so have decided to create a new one.

I have used my Etymotic ER4-P (with custom ear moulds) for many years and for portable usage, they are fantastic. Whenever I have compared to my other headphones via my desktop system (i.e. my Bitzie) however, I have always found them severely lacking in clarity and especially HF, to the point that I take them out immediately.

With Graham's assistance, I have recently found a DAP of sensible design so have taken the plunge and have been thoroughly impressed as all my headphones sound even better. However the issue has returned with my ER4-P which at least confirms how good the player is, but it makes me wonder whether the actual limitations of the IEMs are being highlighted. For one thing, the HF only reaches 16KHz; my hearing is pretty good and in all the headphones, etc that I listen to, my biggest frustration is always the HF quality or extension, so could this be the issue?

I am hoping to hear anyone else's experience with the different variants of the ER4 as I am concerned that replacing with the S or newer models which are harder to drive may not resolve the issue. If that is the case then it is time to look elsewhere if I want IEMs but after a recent demo, the only set that sounded ok to my ears costed around 3x times as much as the new SR/XR models!!

In case this post attracts those who do not know me, my reference headphones are the Sennheiser HD540ii as despite demoing headphones costing many £1000s of pounds, I do not feel any of they can beat the clarity, naturalness and overall package of these 30 year old marvels.

Thanks in advance,

Tim

P.S. To clarify while I welcome recommendations, especially in my existing threads, this thread is specifically to understand the HF limitations of the Etymotic IEMs. LF is already well documented but as I understand this limitation, I can live with it as the other strengths are/were hard to beat.

Thanks Ash. The HF of the 4S has always been heralded as outstanding, but due to my current experience with the 4P, I am now doubtful if the 16kHz roll off can overcome this. I can sense the treble but the roll off kills off the higher frequency sparkle so my brain is potentially imagining what I am missing rather than hearing it.

Very few of the IEMs or headphones I tried recently could compete with the overall sound presentation of the 540ii those that did did not share the same issues that I am finding with the 4P. The sparkle was impeccable and what I perceive to be real so it can't be my ears.

I guess my usage of "sparkle" is also misleading. My reference for HF is that a real cymbal has a unique crispness that doesn't sound rolled off, has a perceivable ceiling to the extension and doesn't cause pain due to being too spangly; it sounds true. That is likely why I rely on good recordings with real instruments when demoing equipment; I can tell if it sounds right or not.

LF on the otherhand I would be rubbish with. I know how to tune to achieve a balanced sound and can tell when something is over emphasized but I would struggle to tell you what real sounds like. Mids (for voices) and HF are more my thing.

My issue when using my 4P with an amped source is that they sound rolled off. Even though you can hear the HF is being reproduced, it doesn't sound anything near crisp enough, but is that due to them being easy to drive or due to the 16kHz roll off?

I did my best to learn about impedance so that I could see what is a best match but my without knowing the output impedance of my DAP, I believe it is a futile exercise?

My knowledge on that subject is poor but yes, I believe that is a big part of the issue as I have experienced it with both the Bitzie and my DAP even though my other headphones sound sublime through both. But even if the other models are better suited, I have no idea of knowing if they will sound crisp enough.

Someone with a more technical understanding may be able to clarify this as all were used via my DAP but only the ER4 sound rubbish.

This is all a bit above my pay grade, but do you have a link to specs for your DAP? My understanding is that output impedance of the headphone jack is important. AFAIK if it is too high then it might not be the best match for some lower impedance headphones. 

I looked up measurements of the ER4PT done by Inner Fidelity. It looks like there is a significant dip in the frequency response just before 10Khz. That dip may lead to a sound you don't like. What you could try, is EQing the headphones using the EQ on your DAP or computer software. 

A quick and dirty way to do it is to look at the chart, and try to bring up the peaks where you see FR dips and the reverse for FR peaks. This is what I do for my headphones. 

A more complex/advanced way to do it is use software, e.g. Hesuvi + Equalizer APO (freeware) or Sonarworks (not free). Sonarworks does have a free beta Android app right now that you can also try. You select your model of headphones in the settings and it flattens out the FR. 

Thanks, mine too.

http://www.dethonray.com/?page_id=8088 - http://www.dethonray.com/?page_id=8088

The spec does not list the output impedance although it does show the power output. I will ask the designer and hopefully he will supply that information.

In the last few months of using my IEMs via my old source I used to EQ them and they responded well, albeit they did not suffer with this bland frequency response issue at the time, but my new DAP does not include an EQ setting. Considering how amazing it makes my other headphones sound (even my Beyerdynamics sound considerably better than through my desktop system!!), I wouldn't want to compromise that anyway in purist fashion.

Your comment about Inner Fidelity has now inspired me to create a new thread as I have questions...

i bought the ex4xr and in the end sold them as they were a little too analytic for my taste and bought the ex2xr (dynamic driver) which i much prefer.

BTW which dap did graham suggest?

d

I have since demo'd other IEMs (including both newer Etymotic models) and I highly recommend the Final Audio B3. To my ears, nothing sounds better until you spend £1k+.

Graham recommended the Dethonray DTR1 after reviewing the specs and design of a shortlist I presented him. His knowledge is second to none as my DAP still sounds fantastic. Bear in mind that it is audio focussed rather than having all the unneeded mod cons...

Tim