Head-Fi vs HiFi
Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Headphone Audio
Forum Name: High Fidelity Headphone User
Forum Description: Technical Q&A, hints and tips
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4821
Printed Date: 23 Apr 2024 at 6:19pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Head-Fi vs HiFi
Posted By: WigglyWoo
Subject: Head-Fi vs HiFi
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 8:39pm
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Am curious what everyone thinks regarding the relative merits of head-fi vs hi-fi... My first memorable experience of music reproduction was hearing the very first Sony Walkman at the tender age of 7 - the experience of hearing stereo sound in my head has stayed with me ever since ... In the following years most of my disposable income (from paper rounds and Saturday jobs) went on various music systems until my first proper HiFi comprising an Audiolab 8000A, Monitor Audio speakers and Sony CD player, soon to be enhanced with Arcam's Black Box (one of the world's first outboard DACs... and yes my parents thought I was nuts spending £250 on a DAC!). Inevitably I grew up, got married and started a family after which the HiFi was packed away in the loft away from prying fingers and I went back to listening to music via headphones... this was the path that led me to Graham Slee - I can't remember when exactly I upgraded from my Rega Ear to the GSP Solo but it was a long long time ago... but what a great headphone amp - so transparent and musical. In the intervening years I've upgraded my Solo to ULDE spec and worked my way up the Grado ladder to my current GS1000. Once the kids were old enough not to poke holes in my speaker cones or use the TT as a trampoline I started cautiously bringing the Hifi down from the loft and back into the living room... but I found it a frustrating experience and here's why - room effects. Listening to music on headphones certainly has its disadvantages (and no doubt detractors) but it protects you from the phasing anomalies introduced by listening in a boxy room... I've played around with audio software (Fuzzmeasure) to measure and try and compensate for reflections and room modes as well as optimising the room listening position but it still leaves me unsatisfied, and as a result I'm still predominantly listening to music via headphones. Am I alone? |
Replies:
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 9:56pm
No, not alone. Somewhere on the forum are my misadventures with room mode problems. I'd started out lucky room-wise, but my expensive workshop extension/listening room began a series of nightmares, and lost me a year's progress. ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
WigglyWoo wrote:Posted By: miT
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 9:56pm
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Like you I discovered Graham Slee due to my Head-Fi requirements but after maturing in my system choices, I now find headphones slightly odd sounding. Music should be projected from a soundstage in front of you but headphones do not do this; music simply gets to your ears which my mind of late struggles to comprehend. Interestingly there has been studies by Harmon to establish the preferred audio signature for headphones and speakers in a room appear to be preferred as the SQ adapts as it interacts with frequencies in the room. I will try to find the link. Sadly like you, I now have prying fingers on the lose so my speaker usage has been decommissioned until a later date. However my main usage is while commuting so headphones can't be beaten for that. I must add that the hassles of getting your room to sound right are a major negative but if achieved, I do think it is a better experience. How to acheive it without a purpose built room though?
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 10:04pm
| I have never been satisfied with speakers because they only sound as good as the room they are in. Then you need more than one driver per channel to get a full frequency response; single drivers won't reach into the lowest bass and once you start putting drivers in extensive enclosures, it messes everything up. I am now looking to DSP to give headphones convincing spatial information. |
Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2019 at 6:13am
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Hi David, I think many of us have been frustrated by this question. Without a dedicated room and the money to get it treated, speaker based systems will always have troubles. Equally, headphone systems are compromised for other reasons. The only way I found out of the mess was to choose to define myself and my systems by what they do well. I love my PMC setup for the soundstage it gives me, the vibrant colours and wonderfully articulate performances. I really enjoy my headphone set up for a more intimate and private listening session. I think it came down to finally realising I wanted to listen to music. Music is really great. I loved it as an eight year old when all I had was a Palsonic twin cassette deck, proof enough that I didn’t need the greatest of Hi-Fi or room to love music! Mick. ------------- Rega RP8 - Apheta 2 - Accession MC Enigma PS -Solo ULDE (Focal Utopia) - PS Audio M700 - Fical Kanta No2 |
Posted By: WigglyWoo
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2019 at 8:20am
Yes it's interesting and subjective of course; dCS have taken the approach of using DSP (as mentioned by Ash) to push the soundstage slightly out in front of the headphone listener (it might even be configurable - I can't remember) which would then give an SQ closer to the loudspeaker setup... I've also played around a little with binaural recordings (listening on headphones) which was interesting but inconclusive IMHO... As you say, they both have their merits - perhaps once the kids have flown the coop and I can reclaim the living room and have more time on my hands I'll start exploring room conditioning... |
Posted By: WigglyWoo
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2019 at 8:26am
I totally agree - at the end of the day it's all about the music and sometimes it's nice to sit on the sofa and crank up the volume and other times to retreat to my study with my headphones for some private time away from the family melee :-) I've got another question on how people discover new music but I'll post it in the music forum...
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Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2019 at 8:30am
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I think it’s also handy to remember that a stereo presentation from speakers isn’t anything like real life, either. Listening to an orchestra, jazz combo or rock band live you just don’t get the soundstage clarity you get when listening to your Hi-Fi system. In a way, it’s “unreal”. So, it seems that in trying to get headphones to present themselves in the way speakers do is also just not real. Why not appreciate what headphones can give you (even inside your head) that speakers can’t, and vice versa? Indeed, we could then appreciate what live music gives us that our Hi-Fi systems can’t! Hmm... Mick. ------------- Rega RP8 - Apheta 2 - Accession MC Enigma PS -Solo ULDE (Focal Utopia) - PS Audio M700 - Fical Kanta No2 |
Posted By: WigglyWoo
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2019 at 4:55pm
...and on the topic of room conditioning, here's the 'tea cosy' I knitted to cover my TV to absorb the first order reflections from the speakers (made out of sound absorption cloth). Thought I'd give you all a laugh on an otherwise boring Monday  |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2019 at 9:08pm
| Take a look at the Smyth Realiser A16. I am very interested in purchasing it despite the high cost. Using DSP and head tracking and 16 virtual loudspeaker positions to imitate the spatial perception you get with loudspeaker setups is a very important step for headphones and has many applications. Looking foward to pairing GSP electronics and MySphere 3.1 with it. Need to save some more and sell some of my things before I consider dropping the money on it though. But virtual reality is the future of headphones and as they can do full frequency range with a single driver AND have low moving mass AND be completely open gives them very promising potential. |
Posted By: WigglyWoo
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2019 at 10:31pm
Fascinating... I'd be interested in how well they manage vertical positioning which is notoriously difficult, or at least was many years ago when I was working on my Masters project in psychoacoustics... Creating phantom speakers was relatively easy in the horizontal plane, although care was needed in the algorithm design to prevent the soundstage from splitting...
Back then though DSP processing power was limited and the only CDROM drive in the whole University was jealously guarded by the Computer Science dept :-) How times have changed... |