Remembering this old post by Graham on the Ortofon 2M Black, and having some time to waste today, I decided to make some experiments by tweaking and comparing my cartridges.

Graham Slee wrote: At 1.5 grams the 2M black sounded like a bee on speed! This track should be easy for any cartridge worth its salt, but perhaps the 'Acos Lustre' arm the Technics uses - identical to what Rega used on the original Planar 2 and 3 - isn't all that good? ... After a number of attempts position 1 on the height adjuster gave the best results - 'the bee flew out the window'. Going back to 1.5 gram the bee returned. Setting the bias anywhere between 0.5 and 3 grams made no difference, so down force and bias were set at 2 grams.

Turntable: Technics SL-1210 Mk2, all stock except for the rubber mat (4 mm SFTG170-01 instead of original 6 mm SFTG172-01, so this must be taken into account for setting of VTA)

Catrtridges: Ortofon 2M Black / Audio Techica AT440MLa / Nagaoka MP-500, all mounted on a stock Technics headshell (all of them have between 250 an 300 hours of use on them, so they are well "burnt-in")

Test records: Hi-Fi News Test LP / Alanis Morissette "Jagged Little Pill" / Red Hot Chili Peppers "Blood Sugar Sex Magik" 180g red vinyl cut all analogue from master tapes (both records which are well mastered but which due to the voice of the singers tend to be at the edge of sibilance)

I did several tests, and in the end the best settings I have found are as follows. Antiskate was tuned to reduce as much as possible (or completely eliminate whenever possible) the "bee" that Graham so well describes above.

2M Black

-----------

VTF: 1.65 g

Antiskate: 2.2

VTA: 1 (but take into account the thinner mat: those with the 6mm mat will want to dial 3)

Comments: of the three cartridges, this is the one that came out as the worst tracker. With these settings, it doesn't skip on any of the torture tracks. BUT it exhibits the "bee" on the +16 and + 18 dB 300 Hz tracks, and the only thing one can do is to make it centered with the antiskate rather than have it only in the right or left channel. Upping VTF to 2 g offers no noticeable improvement.

With real LPs, this is the cartridge that exhibits the most sibilance in difficult vocals too. This cartridge has a very detailed, loud and lively signature (at times bordering on aggressive on cymbals), but it also is the one with the worst channel separation and the least silent backgrounds... it really picks up surface noise - unless alignment has been clinically performed.

AT440 MLa

-------------

VTF: 1.6 g

Antiskate: 2.5

VTA: 0.5 (those with the 6mm mat will want to dial 2/2.5)

Comments: Probably the best tracker of the three. No "bee" at all on ANY of the torture tracks, if antiskate is set as above. Impressive. Detailed, slightly bright rendition (NOT fatiguing), lively and fun. Reduced sibilance compared to the Ortofon. Good channel separation, OK surface noise.

MP500

--------

VTF: 1.6 g

Antiskate: 2

VTA: 1 (those with the 6mm mat will want to dial 3)

Comments: Almost as good a tracker as the Audio Technica, just a momentary hint of "bee" on the +18 dB torture track, but completely forgivable. Again, impressive. A smooth cartridge, detailed but "rich" sounding. Lower output than the other two, but it just takes a notch more on the volume dial. Very relaxing and pleasing sound, although not as punchy as the other two, probably more natural and less forced. Best channel separation of the three cartridges, very low surface noise (the most silent of the three cartridges), sibilance almost absent. Curiosity: being the heaviest cartridge of the test, it requires the counterweight of the Technics arm to be positioned almost at the extreme back (but still no need for the additional optional counterweight), and this results in a lower natural resonance frequency of the cartridge/arm combination (circa 7 Hz vs the 9 Hz of the other two cartridges) which is almost borderline critical.

FINAL CONCLUSION: While I like the "aggressive" sound of the 2M Black on some duller recordings (it adds some liveliness), it definitely comes out as the worst tracker (probably due to the thick cantilever, which is HUGE compared to the other two, especially the ultra thin Nagaoka) and the fussiest cartridge in terms of surface noise. Between the other two, the Nagaoka is more refined and laid back, but the cheaper Audio Technica stands out as a real bargain: great tracker, great sound. Now I would really be curious to try one of the new AT VM540/740ML cartridges, which seem to be just as good as the sadly discontinued 440MLa.

It is a great cartridge, and would probably be way cheaper than the newer version in the range.

I had wanted to try a 150, yes... but now that it's discontinued, I don't like the idea of replacement syluses no longer being easy to get....

Oh, well... For some years I still have no need of new cartridges, anyway!

And now some relax with some real music: David Bowie!

"I think it's funny that for the 2M series they basically just put a big hunk of plastic around the older OM series body internals."

That's interesting, is that definite?

The electrical measurements and some other things may be slightly different but the basic construction is the same when you take apart a 2M. You can even fit OM styli on a 2M body, though it will look funny. 

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/anatomy-of-ortofon-2m-blue-cartridge.740698/ - https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/anatomy-of-ortofon-2m-blue-cartridge.740698/

See pics in the link above. 

In Ortofon's defense they aren't the only company to do something like this. 

I hope that with my post I didn't make the 2M Black come out as the "black sheep" of the group too much. Yes, it isn't as technically perfect in tracking as the other two, and it has a very particular sound signature that may sound a bit aggressive.

But I am using it now to play the 4LP version of RHCP "Stadium Arcadium", which was a limited pressing on excellent vinyl (clean and flat: it has a silent background almost like that of a CD!) and mastered in an all analogue chain from 1" tape by none other than Steve Hoffman.... and it sounds MARVELOUS.

Small update...

I am trying a 2M Bronze now too! Still new, but for the moment here are my impressions (fresh out of the box, just two albums played):

So far (just two albums), I can't detect any difference in timbre and quality compared to the Black except maybe for a hint less of aggressiveness and ringing on the cymbals (good!). It tracks slightly better on the Hi-Fi News test LP, and... it picks less surface noise than the Shibata of the Black. If these impressions are confirmed, I might even like it more than the Black, at half the price!

Some more records played... and the thought that the Bronze stylus is more musical and relaxed than the Black keeps getting stronger and stronger.

It's dead silent in the groove even on the 1963 Verve pressing of Duke Ellington's "Back to back" that I am listening to right now, and I am not finding anything lacking compared to the Black.

I had missed this last post!

After 2 years, I can definitely say that I love the Bronze much better than the Black, and it has become my favourite "all around" cartridge. The others in my collection may have dedicated uses in which they excel, but the Bronze is the one that generally goes well with anything.

The Bronze was my favourite of the MMs. I’ve had a Red and Blue myself and so will be in for a Bronze at some point - too many other carts at the moment to justify a new one (various Audio Technicas, Nagoaka, Shure, Stanton).

Sounds like it was a very interesting event Tim with much to hear.
Just wondering - did they also go through the Cadenza MC series after the Quintets & before the Anna?
Did you think there was perhaps a 'sweet spot' in the MC range before going up to the top of the range Anna?
I've always regarded the Cadenza Blue highly & was wondering how it compares with the rest of Ortofon MCs.
Thanks.

Yes, they worked their way through those pricier MCs as well. We only heard a couple from each of the two MC ranges (Quintet and Cadenza). I remember the Cadenza Black but probably as a chap there mentioned that he’d snapped the boron cantilever on his. £1800 down the drain he said! “If You Wait” by London Grammar sounded amazing via the Black. I bought that album the same day from their record shop. 

Sorry that I can’t really answer your question about the Cadenza Blue. I’ve just checked and it was 2017 so recall is a bit hazy.

I’m an MM man myself and not a rich one, so I was more interested in that range and my take-away from the day was that the Bronze was the sweet spot in that group. Plus that, unless I win the lottery, I’m not going to get that same “Dave Brubeck in my living room” feeling I had that afternoon.

If they (Henley Audio) start doing those Hear The Difference dealer tours again, I can definitely recommend attending one.

I did have the Black, which I sold on. It was not my cup of tea. From the descriptions, it sounds like I would have been better buying the Bronze.

I have found that some of the older cartridges can give you a better sound, when matched with a better stylus.

The MMs I have settled on are:

Technics Mk.III EPC-U205 with Jico SAS/B stylus (I also have a neo SAS for this one. Absolutely cracking cartridge, but the original/NOS stylus is bound to be useless).

AT20SLa with an ATN20SS

AT150mlx - bog standard, but sounds great.

I also tried some Shure with Jico SAS styli, like the M44 and M55. I preferred the 205.

I was also lucky to get hold of a low hours Music Maker Classic, which is a superb cartridge, but has the inconvenience of an MC cost wise.

The main thing is to find a cartridge that works well in your system, that you enjoy. Everybody is different in what they are looking for, so enjoy the journey...

A lot of people say the AT440 is very bright, but I haven’t found that to be the case. That’s the beauty and, some might say, an annoying aspect of Hi-Fi - Rooms, systems and ears are different. 

Sometimes we have to take an (expensive) punt on something. But not with GS. Not many have Graham’s balls!

As you say take a punt, I don't think there are many dealers that let you demo a cart these days let alone in you system. As you also say it can be expensive if you make the wrong choice, we have not all got money to throw away. That's the good thing about this forum you have good people that will give you good advice or at lest their experience of a cart you are looking at.

Ortofon, AT and Nagoaka all make fine modern MMS these days.  Arguably the technology hasn't moved on in the last couple of decades but I'm sure the build quality has, so the product, whichever flavour you prefer will be more consistent.

Judging by the UK hifi press you'd think ortofon had left the others behind but I think that's marketing dollars speaking.  It's interesting that most on this forum prefer the bronze (ml stylus) to the black (Shibata stylus.). If you like the bigger dynamics and soundstage  of a Shibata stylus, then it seems much more at home in an AT cartridge body than an Ortofon one, even though most seem to think the ml stylus is the sweet spot in the AT range too.

I'm an AT Shibata user and I've never known it misbehave like the Ortofon black can.

Simply sublime. A great cartridge.

I am not sure modern cartridges are built any better these days. There is likely to be less demand, and increased costs compared to previous periods, when vinyl was big.

I can remember paying £40 for a Gold ring 1042 back in the eighties.

Difficult to justify that sort of price increase on reduced demand, niche market, shelf space costs etc.

To be fair AT, Ortofon have seen similar price increases.

You say niche, but with the popularity of vinyl at it's highest since the 80s to me it says two things, one people are not playing their vinyl or they are happy with the cart they have. Us lot that care about sound quality they get from their turntable are paying the price. Have you noticed that anything to do with vinyl records is expensive. It may be like me we are happy with are cart and just replace the needle.

A little update? My AT 440 MLa has reached 500 hours, and still going great (still tracking the +18 dB torture track almost flawlessly: just brief bursts of sound breaking up in the left channel unless antiskate is perfectly tweaked!).

I have been experimenting a little bit with VTA, dialing it down a notch: 0 on my Technics 1210 Mk2 (but with the thinner 4 mm mat). If you still have a stock 6 mm mat (Technics changed the thickness in 2005), try 1.5 or 2. Result? More slam, meat, thickness and bass impact. Surface noise doesn't seem to be impacted. Is it better? Well, it's different. Just a matter of taste, worth experimenting if you ever thought that the 440 has a hint of brightness. I never did, so I will probably return to my usual 0.5: but if you are curious, do try. The difference in tonal balance is striking.

In spite of the previous update which seemed to suggest that the AT440MLa was still going strong at 500 hours, yesterday night I was listening to the Bernard Herrmann "Obsession" soundtrack (Decca 4 Phase, 1976) and I was noticing for the first time some IGD in the louder inner grooves of the record (which is cut rather hot, I must add). I put on the Nagaoka MP-500 for comparison, and no IGD.

So, I also re-tested the Nagaoka MP-500.

At the time of original testing, it had less than 100 hours, now it has 300 hours. Has something changed?

Well, yes!

1) Horizontal resonance frequency has slightly increased, so now it's in the same ideal range of the AT440MLa (8-9 Hz), and this is good. Probably the suspension loosened up a bit giving a touch more compliance?

2) Vertical resonance too has gone in the 8-9 Hz zone. I also seem to notice (but I don't remember if this was true when the stylus was relatively new) that there almost is no vertical resonance: compared to the AT 440 Mla, it bounces a LOT less in the vertical direction. It looks more dampened.

3) Tracking still excellent: the +18 dB torture track has a hint of "bee" in both channels, BUT there are no instances of sound breaking/tearing up in either channel. Never, not even with the antiskate set at completely wrong values. The AT440 MLa has less "bee", but brief bursts of sound breaking up unless antistake is maniacally set at 2.2.

One thing must be said: my AT440 MLa has a slightly skewed cantilever. It has a few degrees of bent outwards, nothing severe but it's there (it was the first "serious" cartridge I bought and personally installed 9 years ago, and due to lack of experience it has been treated a bit roughly at times). So, either due to this or due to having 500 hours of use, it might be less than optimal (although, still a wonderful performer).

I will make a definitive test next week: I have ordered a new VMN40ML stylus (the one supplied in the VM540ML cartridge) to put on my 440MLa, and I will test it for comparison.

It's good to see this hands-on research from you Luca. I hope it gets noticed by plenty of MM users.

Stating the obvious, the grand finale is going to be at the end of the record, but I wonder if the casual turntable user really grasps that.

Looking at the circumference of the groove less than 100mm from the centre and the velocity, the harmonic frequencies that give the finale its character are "tight bends" for the stylus. Forget the "needle point", think about the cantilever, its resonance, its "primitive" suspension, and its interface with the generator coils. A phono cartridge is a miracle. The arm also!

And the record itself! The mechanical and chemical processes involved to make a stamper. Then for it to press a splurge of hot PVC and for the faithful groove to emerge. A thing of wonder.

The established maximum velocity of RIAA vinyl is 25cm/s, 800Hz to 2500Hz, which is +14dB, so I am not sure what the +18dB torture test at say 315Hz is intended for. This is where the mechanically agile brain is helpful to assist us choose a suitable cartridge and explain its setup.

And for those who can help members on that front, I am truly grateful.

The new stylus should be better due to a lack of wear. Bear in mind it needs more tracking force than the old 440. I went through a bunch of the 440 and right now I'm using a VMN40ML stylus on an old AT150Ea body with custom loading.

I have it on good authority (microscope pictures to prove it) that the MR/ML styli have significant wear around the 500 hour mark and should not be used much beyond that. A big problem will be bottoming out on the grooves as the stylus gets too worn. Not everyone will hear it, but surface noise often increases as this happens.

One company in Japan uses a combination of microscope photos and a test record with a 15K test tone and measures distortion as the stylus wears. The 315Hz test won't tell you much about wear or higher frequency distortion on the record. It measures the low frequency tracking ability only.

If you look at the cartridge tests that the German magazine Lowbeats does, they are one of the only magazines measuring higher frequency distortion in addition to the low frequency tracking ability that others do. They use a 10K burst tone on a record for that. Some cartridges that do well on the 315Hz test won't do as well on the 10K test.

Indeed. It's explicitly stated on the instruction sheet that if a cartridge does not pass the +18dB torture test but passes all the others... well, don't sweat it too much.

Yes, I have seen similar microscope pictures and the ML stylus at 500 hours had hugely increased profile area due to wear (probably we have seen the same ones). That's why I got curious with my tests.

And yes, recently I was noticing a little more surface noise with the 440.

I think that 185 EUR is a good investment to avoid ruining records, even if theoretically the original stylus could easily still go 100-200 hours more.

While waiting for the new stylus for the AT440, this weekend I have used the 2M Black. In the past 3 years, I have only been using the Bronze stylus which is great... so it was time to return to the Black for comparison!

Well, the Black (at 320 hours) still isn't the best of trackers on test tracks. I still suspect that the fat cantilever isn't the most agile around. And it still is a cartridge with "enhanced" top-end, quite prone to sibilance on less than perfect records.

But... In these two days I raised VTA a bit compared to the theoretical optimum (according to Technics manual suggestion). Just 0.5/1 mm. And it seems better. Less sibilance, and less surface noise. It still is a fussy cartridge/stylus, and it amplifies every scratch or pop too much for my taste... but the shrillness in the highs and the "normal" surface noise (the one that is inherent to the medium itself, not the aforementioned scratches and pops) are tamed a bit.

This goes to the contrary of common knowledge/internet-spread advice. Usually it's advised (probably just because of copy & paste) that lowering VTA tames the highs and strengthens the low end. It evidently isn't as simple as that: VTA has to be RIGHT. Not too high, not too low.

And even antiskate... I dialed it down a bit: the original value was calculated with test tracks. But with real LPs, it's too much and can cause instances of repeating grooves.

Test records used for the evaluation:

Dire Straits - On Every Street (Pallas pressing)

Duran Duran - Duran Duran (white re-release)

Duran Duran - All you need is now (clear vinyl 4 LP Vinyl Factory llimited boxset - very hot pressing, but high quality, made in London on the original EMI 1400 machine)

David Bowie - Low (Parlophone re-release)

Portishead - Dummy (ordinary re-release)

Baustelle - L'amore e la violenza 2 (original pressing)

Guns'n'Roses - Chinese Democracy (original EU pressing)

New Order - The Singles (3 LP boxset - original pressing)

So, my current recommended settings for the 2M Black on the Technics 1200/1210 Mk2 are:

The VN40ML stylus has arrived!

Comments: Identical performance as the original stylus when it was new, except for resonant frequency which seems to be slightly lower (a couple of Hz, nothing that really matters), due probably to the different VTF (although I would have thought from physics that a stiffer suspension would actually INCREASE resonant frequency). As a consequence, I really would recommend the lighter VM540ML compared to the heavier VN740ML, on a Technics arm: the heavier one would further lower resonant frequency, placing it uncomfortably near the 5-6 Hz area.

Compared to the 500 hours original stylus, surface noise has noticeably decreased (a sign that the original one was starting to touch the bottom of the groove). And no more IGD on the inner grooves of the "Obsession" LP! So, yes, be careful when a microline stylus has reached 500 hours!

Of course tonal quality is just like on the original AT440 MLa, since the body has remained the same, and it remains the most balanced for my ears and every type of music. Still a great jack of all trades.

My daily driver cart has the VMN40ML stylus with the older 150Ea (Japan market only) body. It weighs the same as the current 740ML. I also have a slightly heavier headshell than stock (10g rather than 7.6g) and the 10g aux counterweight. My RF is right around 7Hz, maybe slightly higher than that.

This is on a 1200MK7 arm.

Of course I am limited to tools available to the home hobbyist. No professional measurement equipment here.

Note that the position of the main counterweight, use of aux counterweights, different headshells, etc. will also affect the RF.

I have the KAB damper fitted as well. That doesn't really change the fundamental RF IME, but will lower the amplitude a bit. Obviously when you play a record with a tiny warp or pressing defect, the arm movement is more controlled than without.

My 2 cents.

I should mention that without the aux counterweight, my 18g cart + headshell combo causes the counterweight to move very far back and around 1/4'' is not threaded onto the tonearm stub. That's how I ended up using the aux counterweight. There are 3 different types that Technics sells. I have the 10g and 15g ones, but not the heaviest one meant for very heavy cartridges such as Ortofon SPUs.

Never used the extra counterweight on mine! Always been lucky: I have gone to the extreme end of standard counterweight, but no need for more than that.

The trick is the original Technics shell, which is the lightest of them all (and I have three of them, all bought before they skyrocketed in price).

I am playing "Unlimited love" by the Red Hot Chili Peppers now, with the AT440/540 "Frankenstein": it's incredible how much the surface noise has disappeared. It sounds like a CD, no surface noise at all (and with the old stylus there definitely was some, although not heavy). It just still has to loosen up a bit and develop some of the bass fatness that the old stylus had: but 20-30 hours of playing will do the trick, as they did 9 years ago with the original stylus which was just as slightly lean-sounding as this replacement is.

Yeah, they are a lot more expensive now. TBH I've never cared for the original headshells though I know a lot of people like them. At current pricing I will just buy a good quality aftermarket model. I tend to like the ones that are flat on top as it's easier for me to set up the cartridges properly with those. I have an AT MG-10 (magnesium alloy) mounted up now. These are discontinued and have been replaced with a new range of AT "LH" series headshells.

I tend to both agree and disagree with this!

I agree because yes, at times even a few minor changes in alignment have made quite a noticeable difference for me.

I disagree... because my father (from whom I have inherited some 600 LPs) has never bothered with any of these things, has always used either a ceramic cartridge (horror!) or a humble AT-3600 (conical bonded! Horrror!), has never used a cleaning machine, and music has always sounded fine nonetheless!

;-)

Thank you for this. I am now using these settings, but I have to use the add-on counterweight and the black is the one with combined headshell.

Fatmangolf wrote: That is one of the conical stylus's merits.

Yes, no fuss, it just works. No Hi-Fi sound, but... it works.

The only instance where I remember it didn't work so well was The Beatles 1967-70. Even my untrained 15 years old ears could easily notice that "The long and winding road", placed at the end of the LP (on the very internal groove of an already very crammed record with lots of songs per side), sounded like an absolute mess: muddy, congested, distorted, as if played under water. The symphonic arrangement was a unique blob of sound.

I still have that double album, and surprisingly it didn't get damaged by the "obsolete" conical stylus, though. It sounded awful on that setup, but 35 years later when played on a more advanced stylus now it finally plays beautifully.

And yes, on a general note, apart from scuffs and scratches and dirt, most 50-60-70 years old records from my father don't exhibit particular signs of groove damage, even the most played ones. Some do indeed (such as, sigh, the LPs in the Sinatra boxset pressed by Dell in the '80s), but others which have received much more play and should have been in a much worse state of wear... don't. Go figure.

Anyway... In January, apart from the stylus replacement on the AT 440MLa, I have been using the Ortofon 2M Black A LOT. I put up some 50 hours on it in just one month. With headphones, no casual listening.

Still a love/hate relationship with it, even when perfectly set. With good pressings... boy, does it shine! You may not like the music, but Muse have an excellent history of quality pressings, and all their albums sound fantastic on vinyl with the 2M Black. Arctic Monkey's AM, ditto. Metallica's St Anger... ditto. But also Red Hot Chili Peppers, Opeth, New Order... They all sound great, with meaty bass AND extended highs, on this cartridge.

But take something pressed/mastered not as well... Take a record with hints of sibilance on the vocals, and it's amplified. Take a record with high-ish noise floor, and it will become distracting. Take a record with a couple of pops, and they will sound like gunshots. Take a record with hot mixing and ringing cymbals, and your ears will bleed.

In the past I stated that I used to prefer the Bronze stylus as it's more tolerant of less than perfect pressings, while not losing quality with the perfect ones. I still stand to that predicament.

Some say the Black is fussy with its setting. Maybe, but it's even fussier with the quality of the LP it's riding on, to the point of being (at times) distracting from the enjoyment of the music.

And I don't know if I have already suggested it in the past, but try to find a good copy of this:

https://www.discogs.com/release/8463201-Les-Paul-Les-Paul-Now - https://www.discogs.com/release/8463201-Les-Paul-Les-Paul-Now

It should be cheap... I found a pristine copy in my father's records. The music may be a bit cheesy at times, but the virtuoso playing is impressive. And sonically, it's one of the best records I have ever heard. No surface noise at all, and the frequency extension, transparency and clarity is impressive, and the same can be said about pacing, drive, decay and liveliness. 60 years old, and you would be excused for thinking it was a high res digital recording rather than a 12" slice of PVC recorded with "obsolete" equipment. Decca really knew what they were doing...

Four years ago I did a video of side 2 with my now defunct Ortofon Vivo Red on a Sony Biotracer with the Reflex M and Elevator doing the heavy lifting.

Enjoy the cheesy listening 

https://youtu.be/zA-tjMI2cpo - https://youtu.be/zA-tjMI2cpo