Print Page | Close Window

Speaker Stands, some questions

Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: And the rest
Forum Name: Transducers, Speakers, Mics...
Forum Description: Interested in bi-amping, tri-amping, crossovers, speaker design, miking techniques, EQ - the list goes on
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4637
Printed Date: 29 Mar 2024 at 7:30am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Speaker Stands, some questions
Posted By: peterb
Subject: Speaker Stands, some questions
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 1:20pm
As my speakers a large bookshelf units, 22 litres, I have always run them sitting on the floor but my current room setup puts a coffee table between them and my usual sitting position. Unfortunately locating them anywhere else in the room is impossible. I also found out, by accident, that the bass response seemed very much better a little closer and further from them. This has made me think that the furniture is 'getting in the way' of the bass frequencies getting into phase. (my choice of words, not sure how else to put it!).
All this has brought me to the conclusion that stands might be the answer, not that my darling wife thinks that making those b****y things any bigger could ever be a good idea!

Have other forum members good experiences of stands? 
Do they have to filled with expensive, unspecified grains to isolate them? I have them on a carpeted concrete floor.
Are spikes needed, a good idea?
Are the little cushion pads on the stand tops anything special or just high friction buffers? 



-------------
Peter
---------------------------------------
Dual 505-1, Cyrus CD T, DIY 80W MosFet amp and PreAmp, 2xKEF 103.2



Replies:
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 2:38pm
Spikes should be fine. Dry sand works well for filling the stands.
Getting the speaker up to ear level may improve things.


-------------
Kevin
European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France.


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 2:55pm
from experience many years ago filling a hollow metal stand with sand CAN rob the bass of speed and detail (one note).

How about a hardwood stand or similar?  Personally would avoid rubber pads between stand and speaker as have found this tends to soften or blur the sound. Like most things like this train and error or trial by ear to test your assumptions 



Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 7:30pm
The important part is the interface.
I used spikes between speaker and stand on my sand filled speaker stands, and noticed no difference compared to them being empty.


-------------
Kevin
European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France.


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 7:48pm
Yes the interface is important and would follow the reasoning to avoid say rubber pads- have never tried spikes between spraker and stand but tend to agree with the logic.  I used to use medium grade sandpaper at each corner to ensure contact and grip.  Now used Les Davis pads to isolate and absorb vibrations which do work by cleaning all areas of the presentation and lift the music away from the speakers.

Once you have your stands you can try various options which you should be able to tue the sound to your taste.


Posted By: peterb
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 8:14pm
Thanks for the words of wisdom!
I guess the objective is isolation, both the stand filling, spikes and pads. 
I have found some that seem to suit here,  http://www.analogueseduction.net/category-376/atacama-sl400i-speaker-stands.html - https://www.analogueseduction.net/category-376/atacama-sl400i-speaker-stands.html .
Family harmony will determine if they are 300 or 400mm high!

Do they look as if they will do what I want? (I guess an impossible question)


-------------
Peter
---------------------------------------
Dual 505-1, Cyrus CD T, DIY 80W MosFet amp and PreAmp, 2xKEF 103.2


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 8:32pm
You may also want to consider 
https://www.analogueseduction.net/category-375/hi-fi-racks-duet-speaker-stands.html - https://www.analogueseduction.net/category-375/hi-fi-racks-duet-speaker-stands.html

I think they can be made to a custom size and may be more ‘family friendly’ though cannot comment whether better or worse - though my brother bought a pair of hi-fi racks for his 40kg speakers.

From past experience AS may allow you to buy/borrow both so you can keep the ones you prefer and return the other one?  This is what I did with my TT mats!


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 8:33pm
You should be able to tilt them upwards towards the listening position whichever you end up with.


Posted By: patientot
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 8:34pm
I use blutak or poster tak to secure my medium/large bookshelf speakers to my stands. Never had a problem with doing that but there are other methods some folks may prefer. If your floor is carpeted I would probably use spikes at the bottom of the stand. If you have tile or wood floors, the little rubber bumpers are preferable so you don't scratch your wood/tile. 

I don't my stands are filled with sand or buckshot, but they are nearly 40 lbs each so plenty heavy on their own. With lighter weight stands and heavier speakers, I'd definitely consider filling them with something if possible. 

Height of the stand (e.g. 2 ft or 3 ft or something else) should be determined by where the height will allow the speaker to be at ear level. 

No experience with the particular stands you linked. I would check the height to make sure it is correct for your speakers as they are only around 9'' high if I'm reading the description correctly. I assume your speakers are quite tall if you considering stands that short. 


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 10:48pm
Ideally you want the speakers to stay still so some filler to add mass and stop the stands ringing is good. A good join between speaker and stand by spikes, pads, blu-tac, etc. can all help but may sound slightly different.

With deep carpet I agree about spikes unless you have wooden floorboards in which case you may find spikes mean they act as a soundboard and colour the bass with their resonances. Then I'd try some isolation between stand and speaker like gel pads to see if that helps.



-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Suggs
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 7:25am
With regard to others comments on getting the speaker to ear height, the aim should be to bring the tweeter to your sitting ear height if possible


-------------
Derek


Posted By: peterb
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:57am
Thanks everyone for their input.
I think the speakers are little larger than some of you have realised, 22 litres is not an easy quantity to visualise. I have added a clip from the fabrication instructions. 
Raising them will make them quite prominent, I am pondering some angled supports that 'point' them to ear level. Perhaps like these:  http://www.hifix.co.uk/audioengine-ds2-desktop-speaker-stands-medium-large-black-pair - https://www.hifix.co.uk/audioengine-ds2-desktop-speaker-stands-medium-large-black-pair
Two houses back our sitting room was so small I actually wall mounted them off special directional brackets, but they were either side of a chimney breast so did not project into the room. It wouldn't suit our current living room.


-------------
Peter
---------------------------------------
Dual 505-1, Cyrus CD T, DIY 80W MosFet amp and PreAmp, 2xKEF 103.2


Posted By: patientot
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by peterb peterb wrote:

Thanks everyone for their input.
I think the speakers are little larger than some of you have realised, 22 litres is not an easy quantity to visualise. I have added a clip from the fabrication instructions. 
Raising them will make them quite prominent, I am pondering some angled supports that 'point' them to ear level. Perhaps like these:  http://www.hifix.co.uk/audioengine-ds2-desktop-speaker-stands-medium-large-black-pair - https://www.hifix.co.uk/audioengine-ds2-desktop-speaker-stands-medium-large-black-pair
Two houses back our sitting room was so small I actually wall mounted them off special directional brackets, but they were either side of a chimney breast so did not project into the room. It wouldn't suit our current living room.

490mm = approx. 19 inches tall. That's a bit taller than my speakers, which are around 14.5'' tall. I have mine on 2 foot stands to get the tweeters at ear level. The height you need for your stands will probably be less but will also depend on your seating position. I doubt the audioengine stands will work. Those are designed for small desktop type computer speakers. 


Posted By: peterb
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 10:13pm
Yes I have being doing the sums and checking the web and agree with you.
So far I haven't found anything on the web to suit, even wedge type supports.


-------------
Peter
---------------------------------------
Dual 505-1, Cyrus CD T, DIY 80W MosFet amp and PreAmp, 2xKEF 103.2


Posted By: peterb
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 7:09pm
I decided on an experiment! I brought in the dining chairs and stood the speakers on them.
The result? The overall sound was same/worse and not better!
Not very scientific but I think probably a fair indication.

All this started because I accidentally found the sound was fuller in the low frequencies when I stood behind and to the left or right of my usual seating position.

My next step is going to move all the nearby furniture and walk around the space to see what my ears tell me.
In an idle moment I thought about the wavelength of the lower frequencies and was there enough space for the left and right channels to synchronise. I know sound is not coherent like laser light, but there must be sound re-enforcement for wavelength dimensions. For 40Hz that is more than 8m!


-------------
Peter
---------------------------------------
Dual 505-1, Cyrus CD T, DIY 80W MosFet amp and PreAmp, 2xKEF 103.2


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 7:28pm
This might help you understand the reason for the fuller low frequencies...

https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc - https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc

Be prepared to input your room dimensions.


-------------
That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: peterb
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 2:43pm
Interesting program which visualises the frequency modes in a simple rectangular box, your listening room. For my room dimensions it spookily showed a 40Hz node just where I had noticed the fuller bass!

It seems the answer for my circumstances is to change my seating position, something fairly easy to test.


-------------
Peter
---------------------------------------
Dual 505-1, Cyrus CD T, DIY 80W MosFet amp and PreAmp, 2xKEF 103.2



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net