Print Page | Close Window

Thinking about a 1200G

Printed From: Graham Slee at Hifi System Components
Category: Turntable Audio
Forum Name: DJ and Professional Turntable User
Forum Description: Technical Q&A, hints and tips
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589
Printed Date: 20 Sep 2019 at 3:54pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Thinking about a 1200G
Posted By: Old skool
Subject: Thinking about a 1200G
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 4:29pm
Due to my finicky L*nn issues I’m thinking about going for a 1200G when funds allow. 

Do we think the 2M Black I have on the LP12 would be suitable for the 1200G?

It’s a light magnesium arm isn’t it? Am I right in thinking a low capacitance cart would suit??

Light arm stiff suspension isn’t it? Or do I have it backwards??


-------------
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....



Replies:
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 10:13pm
This may help: 1200G tonearm effective mass of 12g should be fine with the 2M Black's compliance, this online tool on VE gives 8Hz for the resonance:

https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator_results.php?m=Ortofon+2M%20Black&cm=7.2&dc=22&search=search" rel="nofollow - https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator_results.php?m=Ortofon+2M%20Black&cm=7.2&dc=22&search=search





-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2018 at 9:38am
Oh good. It’s a fairly new cart so be nice to be able to use it. 
I’d have to buy a new pre amp if I were to go MC


-------------
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....


Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 9:36am
Would have thought a half decent MM cartridge would suit a direct drive TT?

-------------
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 11:42am
Originally posted by Old skool Old skool wrote:

Would have thought a half decent MM cartridge would suit a direct drive TT?


It does.


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 11:54am
I'm not too sure about it curing your distortion issues.

The 2M Black has a fine line stylus, and sits deeper in the groove  than the conical stylus of your other carts.
The 2M Black is a pain in the arse to set up properly, because it has a fine line stylus.

Have you tried playing an LP at 45rpm?
Does it track OK?


Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 2:49pm
Sorry, only just been this thread (got an internet connection back after remote holidaying the last couple of weeks) - Yes Tim, the 2M Black is a very good match for the 1200G & I use this combination a lot. 

It sounds excellent, tracks well & with no discernable distortion. Treble is also very sweet without any of the occasional harshness I used to hear on a Rega or Audiomods arm. 


-------------
Older than I once was, younger than I'll be
.............................
Andrew


Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2018 at 9:40am
Originally posted by Chris Firth Chris Firth wrote:

I'm not too sure about it curing your distortion issues.

The 2M Black has a fine line stylus, and sits deeper in the groove  than the conical stylus of your other carts.
The 2M Black is a pain in the arse to set up properly, because it has a fine line stylus.

Have you tried playing an LP at 45rpm?
Does it track OK?


-------------
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....


Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2018 at 9:52am
Originally posted by Chris Firth Chris Firth wrote:

I'm not too sure about it curing your distortion issues.

The 2M Black has a fine line stylus, and sits deeper in the groove  than the conical stylus of your other carts.
The 2M Black is a pain in the arse to set up properly, because it has a fine line stylus.

Have you tried playing an LP at 45rpm?
Does it track OK?

The distortion is an LP12 issue.  The Technics 1210s I own have always been great. 
I am thinking about buying a 1200G to replace the LP12 & wanted to swap the 2M Black across. 

Re your question about distortion:
You can play an LP @ 45 with no issues. 
However, if you play one of the 45s that clips @ 33rpm, it still distorts!
Starting to wonder if it is the actual recordings themselves?
Some 45s play just fine since I tweaked the 2 point alignment but the main culprits can sound a bit rough on the DJ system if you turn the gain up. 
I suspect I still have a minor alignment issue on the LP12 but it sounds fabulous playing LPs so there can’t be too much wrong. 
Just annoying that I’m too ignorant to fix it myself. 
Like the idea of a 100% reliable 1200G


-------------
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2018 at 10:42am
It does look as though the 45s themselves could be a large part of the problem.
You'd probably still have issues with them using the 2M Black an a SL1200G, but with that being the case you could easily switch for one of your other carts.

It could well be that the Shibata stylus in the 2M Black is reaching that far down into the groove that it's pulling information out information that the Nightclub styli can't reach.
Which in turn is why I think a change of TT might not make the problem go away.





Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2018 at 11:45am
Given the choice of a fully tricked out LP12, or a new SL1200G, I'd pick the latter every time.
The LP12 was quite possibly the best marketed TT in history, but by no means was it ever the best performer.
Viral marketing and brainwashing is a lot older than the internet.



Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2018 at 3:16pm
Burn the heretic!! 

🔥


-------------
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....


Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2018 at 3:19pm
Now the L*nn website has closed the Facebook LP12 forum has been swamped with Linnista’s. 🙄



-------------
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....


Posted By: JonThurston
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2018 at 4:26pm
Old Skool - hope you don't mind me reviving your 'Thinking About a SL1200 G' thread...

... and posing a question of my own?

Following a brief but frenetic return to vinyl over the last two-years I've just sprung for an SL1200 G - thus far I've not pulled the trigger on a cart.

It will be the front end of my Accession MM - Marantz PM6006 - Monitor Audio Bronze 5 chain (no plans to upgrade the amp or speakers until I've settled on source components).

My listening room (in an 1890s London house) has nice high ceilings but springy wooden floors. Not my house and so wall shelf is not an option. The room is rather bright, to say the least (and the underfloor heating precludes a lot of rug damping).

Brief history: Project Debut Carbon DC/2M Red (worked fine as an intro), Clearaudio Concept/MM (unusable as my floor excited the floppy magnetic tonearm but I liked the sound), Project 2Xperience SB (I must've got one built on a Friday afternoon - 'nuff said), Rega RP8/2M Bronze (I liked the detail but found it on the anaemic side of lean).

I listen through headphones a lot due to young kids at home, so noise/rumble is a thing for me - the RP8 I found rather noisy through HD600s.

I'm open to cart suggestions MM or high output MC.

I'm wary of MI carts due to AC/hum risk with the Technics.

I've noticed a lot of the usual suspects - in theory at least - fall a little shy of 8hz resonance on the stock SL1200 G tonearm (eg. Ortofon 2M, AT VM series, Dynavector 10x5)...

Budget £800 or so...



-------------
Technics SL 1200G w/AT VM750SH - CuSat50 - Accession MM - Marantz PM6006 - ULDE - Sennheiser HD600 - ProAc DT8


Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2018 at 6:37pm
Hi Jon

I have owned an SL1200G since last January & use various MM carts with it via the Accession M. I can recommend a few:

My favourite will always be the Audio Note IQ3 but this is going to be a bit beyond the budget you mention. However you could get an IQ1 (same body) and pair it with a Goldring 1042 stylus - it fits as the IQs are made by Goldring under license & sounds quite similar to the next in range IQ2 (also very good & close to the IQ3).

Likewise the Roksan Corus Black or Silver, again Goldring derivatives & once again sound excellent with the 1042 stylus (I use a Black/1042 or sometimes Black/1012 combo a lot on my 1200G, probably more than anything else). There were one of each of these carts on ebay when I just checked. 

I like the 2M Black on the Technics but it is very fussy to setup, especially azimuth. Once aligned correctly it has a beautiful sound, in my opinion only bettered by the IQ3. I hear no 'resonance' issues with the Ortofon, nor in fact with an AT150ANV & 150Sa stylus which would be similar to a VM750SH. Both are excellent & match well to the 1200G.

As far as 'hum' & MI, I also have a Grado Prestige II cartridge with various styli & in spite of what you may read about this brand, it is absolutely silent & all stylus derivatives have a silky midrange, albeit more laid back than any of the others I mentioned above.

One final comment - a pair of CuSat 0.6m interconnects between the G & Accession produces very silky treble so I guess the capacitance is a perfect match at the 100pf setting.

Enjoy your new table....


-------------
Older than I once was, younger than I'll be
.............................
Andrew


Posted By: JonThurston
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 6:50pm
Dear Andrew, Old Skool, Colin, et al

Quick update from me, now I have my 1200G up and running:

The Technics SL-1200G replaces my Rega RP8 - so a radically different set of engineering principles underpinning the 'tables.

My listening room is our 18 ft x 13ft front room (14ft high ceilings), somewhat springy floorboards - underfloor heating, so no damping from rugs - and not a dedicated space, so the 'table is placed on a rack not a wall shelf to permit fair use for all my family.

As you can imagine, its a bright, rather thin sounding room, with plenty of troublesome vibrations.

The 18kg of the 1200G, however, copes admirably with these challenges. The Rega suffered audibly in this environment. (I briefly had a Clearaudio Concept with the silly floppy magnetic tonearm which would skate all over the place if our cat so much as tiptoed across the floor.)

On the Rega I had a 2M Bronze which I found, true to its reputation, to have captivating detail but a very insubstantial presence in my room. Hence Andrew's discussion on cartridges (above) was invaluable to me - again I thank him for his kind and detailed advice.

In the end I opted for an Audio Technica VM750SH - I had read in certain reviews of the 1200G (eg. Fremer) that the table could have a slightly bright edge, so I felt like trying out a shibata shape due to the reputed mid-range presence, but also fancied, for a change, trying something other than an Ortofon.

I decided to align the AT to Lofgren A/Baerwald, since the vast majority of my LPs end their sides with an ample swathe of deadwax. 

To achieve this I used a Feickert protractor - a nicely machined bit of kit, but with cartridges such as the AT (that have their cantilever tucked away under the body) the Feickert is a real b**tch to use. Even with a digital microscope - and excellent lighting - the black anodised finish of the Feickert poses real challenges to the effectiveness of the human retina. Carts with exposed cantilevers, I imagine, are much more suited to both this particular protractor and the avoidance of early-onset glaucoma.

(Incidentally, on the Rega I used a Mint Tractor: much easier concerning tucked-away cantilevers, but obviously a lot less flexible than the Feickert).

The AT is 17.3mm in height, so to give me some extra wiggle room when dialling in SRA I opted for an Oyiade BR-12 mat. This thing gives me an extra 2mm up at the headshell end, thus enabling a touch of tail down when the 1200G's tonearm is set to zero on the VTA adjuster.

(Incidentally, I've never played around with mats before - the Oyiade is very impressively made, and has a 1-deg taper out from the spindle which, when you use a record weight, is supposed to aid flattening slight warps. I have found that this actually does work! Oyiade recommend a 300g weight but I found 240g worked better, as 300g over-egged the bass.)

I have set the AT at 2g VTF - and the thing sailed through all the tracking tests on the HiFi News Test record - I have anti-skate set at a whisper above 1.

I also took Andrew's advice and invested in a pair of CuSats: I got them in 1m length. On my Accession MM I have found zero pf capacitance on the dip switches hits the sweet spot a tad more sweetly than the more logical 100pf.

I now have 15 hours on the 'table, cart and interconnect - everything else, including the Accession, has 100s of hours...


INITIAL FINDINGS

Taken together, this combination presents music in my room in a much more coherent way. The Rega/2M Bronze was just too amorphous in the room (far better in headphones).

I surmise I am hearing (possibly) the solidity of direct drive, and the mid-range presence of a shibata vs micro-line?

The detail of the Rega/2M Bronze is lacking, and the soundstage is not as holographic - two factors which I hope will improve (either because mechanical break-in/electrical burn-in are real phenomena, or because my psycho-acoustic perceptions evolve)  - yet the trade-off (as its stands) is the one I envisioned when I decided to swap out a lightweight skeletal belt-driven turntable for a brutalist direct-drive machine. 

I am really enjoying my record collection again!

Of course, I also now have the added benefit (financial liability) of swapping carts as easily as swapping headshells...

The journey continues.




-------------
Technics SL 1200G w/AT VM750SH - CuSat50 - Accession MM - Marantz PM6006 - ULDE - Sennheiser HD600 - ProAc DT8


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 7:43pm
Thanks for your informative review and is a domestic compromise in many ways as you set out.

Is it the ‘Floorboard bounce’ rather than audible feedback the main issue?

My equally substantial former DD deck was used on a floorboard suspended rack at my previous house and I tended to tiptoe around the room to avoid issues but do recall LP12s being all over the place at 70s/80s hifi shows.

I do find that with my deck being located close to my bass driver my current suspended TT doesn’t pick up any audible colouration at high levels my DD TT picked up on certain material with more sustained bass lines.

Sounds like you have found a good way forward which suits your needs and provides flexibility in other areas and enjoyment of listening is why we are all here....


-------------
The Source turntable, Audiomods V micrometer, Dynavector XX2-2, Accession M, Elevator, Leema Antila 2Seco CD player, TDL studio 1.


Posted By: JonThurston
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 8:22pm
Hi Richard

yes, floorboard bounce was the issue. I'm able to site the rack away from overt airborne vibrations.

Happy to report the 1200G appears fairly impervious to it. 

The Rega RP8 would occasionally mistrack due to the floor. 

The Clearaudio Concept with Verify magnetic tonearm would mistrack all over the place if anyone within a 5-mile radius sneezed.

Interestingly, the issue is well reported in various forums, and the US importer of Clearaudio now routinely offers the Concept with the traditional bearing Satify tonearm at no extra cost for any customer who has a sprung floor. In the UK, I have found, there is still a bit of importer reluctance to acknowledge the issue.

When I decided to move on from the Rega the necessary domestic comprise of my flooring played a role in my decision-making. For example, I was advised not to consider a Gyrodec or an LP12 as the floor would likely excite the suspension laterally.

It took me a while to acclimatise to the aesthetics of the 1200G and shake off the well rehearsed direct-drive vs belt-drive orthodox thinking, but thus far I'm very happy with the experiment...


-------------
Technics SL 1200G w/AT VM750SH - CuSat50 - Accession MM - Marantz PM6006 - ULDE - Sennheiser HD600 - ProAc DT8


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 9:40pm
Long term happiness is the goal and sounds like you are getting there.

-------------
The Source turntable, Audiomods V micrometer, Dynavector XX2-2, Accession M, Elevator, Leema Antila 2Seco CD player, TDL studio 1.


Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 8:48am
Hi John

Thanks for your insights into 1200G ownership. 

Just wondering why a wall shelf is out of the question?
Even the Technics would benefit.


-------------
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....


Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 11:54am
You can get pretty timber plinths for 1210s in your choice of polished wood from the likes of Inspire HiFi. 

I may go that way when I get my 1200G. 
It’s a bit pro audio for the front room. 
Hiding it in a pretty walnut box might help get it past the Mrs. 


-------------
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....


Posted By: JonThurston
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 8:26am
I own the Technics but I don't own the wall, hence no shelf.

-------------
Technics SL 1200G w/AT VM750SH - CuSat50 - Accession MM - Marantz PM6006 - ULDE - Sennheiser HD600 - ProAc DT8


Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 8:36am
Ah, I assumed as much. 

One would hope a DJ deck would be pretty much immune to sound waves and vibrations?


-------------
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....


Posted By: JonThurston
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 10:53am
The Technics 1200G does seem pretty accomplished in this regard - the damped footers can move laterally as well as vertically, and the constrained layer principle of the chassis with the overall mass I assume must be helping matters (?).

Certainly the 'table is way more impervious than the Rega RP8 I previously had, and the Clearaudio Concept was actually unusable.

Years ago I lived on an old Dutch barge moored on the Thames in central London. I had a cheapo Project Debut Carbon at the time and I must say the river isolated things nicely Big smile


-------------
Technics SL 1200G w/AT VM750SH - CuSat50 - Accession MM - Marantz PM6006 - ULDE - Sennheiser HD600 - ProAc DT8


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 12:06pm
floating suspension John?  


Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2019 at 12:56pm
One thing that corncerns me about swapping the flashy LP12 for
for a 1200G is that it has on inboard PSU. 
Wonder if anyone is making a separate PSU for the 1200G ?


-------------
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....


Posted By: Lucabeer
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2019 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by Old skool Old skool wrote:

One thing that corncerns me about swapping the flashy LP12 for
for a 1200G is that it has on inboard PSU. 
Wonder if anyone is making a separate PSU for the 1200G ?


Many modders were making external PSUs for the classic 1200, so I guess there are for the new 1200G too.

There's a guy in Italy who's a master in doing mods for the 1200 including external PSUs (and I know he's working on the new versions too), and you might certainly do much worse than drop him an e-mail because he really knows his stuff:

http://www.mr1200.it/ - http://www.mr1200.it/

That said, on my MKII I have never felt the need for an external PSU....


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2019 at 10:09pm
The old SL1200 had a linear PSU with a bloody enormous transformer under the platter.
The effect of its vibration at 50Hz, with harmonics at 100Hz, 200Hz etc effected the tracking of the cart.
The effects of the vibration were audible.
Getting the transformer into an external box removed the problem.

The new SL1200 has a tiny transformer, and without the same amplitude vibration.
It doesn't need to have a big transformer, because the onboard PSU is SMPS.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2019 at 10:45am
Chris is right about the new 1200's. If you have got the classic SL1210/1210 I would encourage you to try an external supply for the reasons Chris explained above. That was the best advice I was given for my SL1210/II (another thank you to Graham) and probably the single best upgrade I have made.



-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Lucabeer
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2019 at 10:58am
Maybe I will try it when (and if) I will have to send up my Technics for periodical revision/cleaning/maintenance. Thanks for the advice!



Posted By: JonThurston
Date Posted: 19 May 2019 at 4:18pm
One disconcerting development on the SL-1200 G:

I'd read elsewhere on a forum linked to a famous mastering engineer of owners beginning to notice a platter wobble that can occur on 1200 Gs. Various short films uploaded to illustrate the phenomenon.

Naturally, I checked mine and lo!... a bleedin' wobble! 

It's certainly slight but easily discernible to the naked eye once you are aware of it. It resembles a kind of undulation, in rhythm, and I would say the peak vertical motion is not more than 1mm - difficult to tell.

Naturally I've double checked the seating of the platter on the spindle assembly, cleaned everything, etc. - but its still there. In fact, on lightly pressing the outer edge of the platter whilst its stationary there is a definite rocking or play that can be felt.

Whether the root cause is in the machining of the platter, or issues with the spindle assembly, or something else... who knows?

And what effect it has on musical reproduction? - who knows, but certainly it can't be helpful. Technics make a big deal re. their platter construction on the 1200 G.

My deck is 4-months old and in pristine order. I bought it new from a well-known online retailer that went into administration earlier this year, so I've contacted Technics directly but they are... not overly keen on getting into the matter, shall we say.




-------------
Technics SL 1200G w/AT VM750SH - CuSat50 - Accession MM - Marantz PM6006 - ULDE - Sennheiser HD600 - ProAc DT8


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 19 May 2019 at 5:34pm
manufacturer is responsible not the retailer....won’t be good PR for Technics if they play hard to get....  

-------------
The Source turntable, Audiomods V micrometer, Dynavector XX2-2, Accession M, Elevator, Leema Antila 2Seco CD player, TDL studio 1.


Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 12:13pm
That wobble definitely shouldn’t be there. QC issue?
Expect better from Technics on the flagship TT. 

On a different note some guys on another Hifi forum did a back to back listening test between a very good Garrard 301 and a Technics 1200G

They said they could barely tell the apart!
Given the difference in design that’s most surprising to hear. 
Think carts were Denon DL110 MM on the 1200 and a Denon 103MC on the 301


-------------
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by Old skool Old skool wrote:

Think carts were Denon DL110 MM


The DL110 is HOMC.



Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 2:26pm
I may well be mistaken then. I thought he said he was using a MM

Dare say I can find out. 


-------------
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by JonThurston JonThurston wrote:

One disconcerting development on the SL-1200 G:

Naturally, I checked mine and lo!... a bleedin' wobble! 

It's certainly slight but easily discernible to the naked eye once you are aware of it. It resembles a kind of undulation, in rhythm, and I would say the peak vertical motion is not more than 1mm - difficult to tell.

Naturally I've double checked the seating of the platter on the spindle assembly, cleaned everything, etc. - but its still there. In fact, on lightly pressing the outer edge of the platter whilst its stationary there is a definite rocking or play that can be felt.

My deck is 4-months old and in pristine order. I bought it new from a well-known online retailer that went into administration earlier this year, so I've contacted Technics directly but they are... not overly keen on getting into the matter, shall we say.



I'm shocked! I have three old SL1200/1210 II's: one I bought new 7 years ago; 2 I bought off eBay - actually bought 3 and made 2 good ones. All are now well-used and absolutely no wobble.

Not overly keen? They need a swift kick up the Censored !


-------------
Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: JonThurston
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 5:24pm

[/QUOTE]

I'm shocked! I have three old SL1200/1210 II's: one I bought new 7 years ago; 2 I bought off eBay - actually bought 3 and made 2 good ones. All are now well-used and absolutely no wobble.

Not overly keen? They need a swift kick up the Censored !
[/QUOTE]

Not sure how permissible links are (?), but here's 3 brief videos of my tremulous Technics:

1. https://youtu.be/aQj3kVPcJLo

2. https://youtu.be/Rehsp_vg0YQ

3. https://youtu.be/CAd9UZQpbdk




-------------
Technics SL 1200G w/AT VM750SH - CuSat50 - Accession MM - Marantz PM6006 - ULDE - Sennheiser HD600 - ProAc DT8


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 6:25pm
On the old ones the 'stub axle' type bearing is held in by 3 screws. See "A" on image at

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/92/fb/de/92fbdea8b17edf7de4ea69752e063d62.gif

reproduced here:


Wonder if these were not tightened in assembly?


-------------
Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by JonThurston JonThurston wrote:




I'm shocked! I have three old SL1200/1210 II's: one I bought new 7 years ago; 2 I bought off eBay - actually bought 3 and made 2 good ones. All are now well-used and absolutely no wobble.

Not overly keen? They need a swift kick up the Censored !
[/QUOTE]

Not sure how permissible links are (?), but here's 3 brief videos of my tremulous Technics:

1. https://youtu.be/aQj3kVPcJLo



2. https://youtu.be/Rehsp_vg0YQ



3. https://youtu.be/CAd9UZQpbdk




[/QUOTE]


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 6:45pm
Is there some crud on the spindle?
Is there any burring in the aperture where the spindle goes through the platter?


Posted By: JonThurston
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2019 at 5:52pm
Dear Graham and Chris

thanks for the tips.

Had the platter off today to check for burrs or crud - nicely clean there.

Technics customer services continue to send me 'troubleshooting' advice via email, such as (quote) "Please check tiny dust particles are not caught in between" they don't say in between what precisely, or how tiny. When I paid £2500 for the turntable I didn't realise I'd need an electron microscope and to operate the 'table only under sterile lab conditions.

Since its less than 6-months old and I sensibly bought it with my credit card, perhaps I'll take things up with the card issuer.

I realise this may be a 1/1000 unit issue, but shame on Technics.

[Accession and ULDE still immaculately soldier on!]


-------------
Technics SL 1200G w/AT VM750SH - CuSat50 - Accession MM - Marantz PM6006 - ULDE - Sennheiser HD600 - ProAc DT8


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2019 at 7:17pm
If you were buying a £100 deck this wouldn’t be acceptable and I would be inclined to ask for replacement or if not full refund (sale of good act) or try trading standards for advice. Sounds like you have a Friday afternoon Lemon? As you say it may be a 1/1000 which is why you should get a replacement not asked to mend it yourself Angry

-------------
The Source turntable, Audiomods V micrometer, Dynavector XX2-2, Accession M, Elevator, Leema Antila 2Seco CD player, TDL studio 1.


Posted By: JonThurston
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 3:19pm
Let's see if this email to PayPal does the trick:

Dear PayPal

Re: Superfi Transaction £2499 dated 02 January 2019

Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended)

I am writing to you regarding a problem I have with the goods that I bought from Superfi on 02/01/2019 at a cost of £2499, using my PayPal credit account.

This product - a Technics SL-1200 G turntable purchased new - has stopped working correctly, developing a fault that prevents the turntable from spinning correctly or in a stable fashion. Therefore, as a musical device, this product is manifestly no longer of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose or as described.

In fact, that this fault exists on some production models of this specific turntable, has now become a known issue.

This product was purchased online from Superfi less than 6-months ago.

As you are aware, under The Consumer Rights Act 2015 any fault discovered within the first 6-months of receiving the product is presumed, in law, to have been there since the time the buyer took ownership of it - unless the retailer can prove otherwise.

It's up to the retailer to prove that the fault wasn't there when purchased - it's not up the buyer to prove that it was. 

Unfortunately, in this case, the retailer went into administration on 20th February 2019 ( https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3213910 - https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3213910 ) and are no longer trading.

As PayPal supplied the credit for this purchase, I hold you jointly and severally liable for the breach of contract with Superfi under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

PayPal therefore have a duty to offer me the same solution as I would have had the retailer not gone into administration: a satisfactory repair, exchange or refund.

Kind regards

JT. 


All this as Technics resolutely refuse to even examine my turntable!




-------------
Technics SL 1200G w/AT VM750SH - CuSat50 - Accession MM - Marantz PM6006 - ULDE - Sennheiser HD600 - ProAc DT8


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 5:03pm
You should (also) outline your claim and the reasons for it to the administrator and send it to Michael Rose, M1 Insolvency, Gothic House, Barker Gate, Nottingham NG1 1JU.

FYI, The administrator first met with director Daniel Abrams on 12 November 2018.

-------------
Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 6:44pm
would it be reasonable to conclude the importers do not offer any manufacturer warranty 

-------------
The Source turntable, Audiomods V micrometer, Dynavector XX2-2, Accession M, Elevator, Leema Antila 2Seco CD player, TDL studio 1.


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 7:47pm
I will let you know what technics say their warranty is in the TT -I have asked!

-------------
The Source turntable, Audiomods V micrometer, Dynavector XX2-2, Accession M, Elevator, Leema Antila 2Seco CD player, TDL studio 1.


Posted By: JonThurston
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by Graham Slee Graham Slee wrote:

You should (also) outline your claim and the reasons for it to the administrator and send it to Michael Rose, M1 Insolvency, Gothic House, Barker Gate, Nottingham NG1 1JU.

FYI, The administrator first met with director Daniel Abrams on 12 November 2018.

Graham, not only have you - (and John & Leo) - made these wonderful always on (and always working) little boxes that elicit from my cartridges and headphones such unbridled excellence... but you're like my legal advisers too, in this sorry tale of Technics gone wrong.

God bless GSP and all who sail (and regale) in her!!


-------------
Technics SL 1200G w/AT VM750SH - CuSat50 - Accession MM - Marantz PM6006 - ULDE - Sennheiser HD600 - ProAc DT8


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2019 at 1:54pm
John hopefully this is of use....Technics response... quick an as you would expect but perhaps differs from your experiences?

Thank you for your e-mail.

In response, I would like to informe you that all Technics products are covered by a 2 year manufacturers warranty. 

I trust that the above information will be of assistance to you. However, of course, if you should have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

 

 

 



-------------
The Source turntable, Audiomods V micrometer, Dynavector XX2-2, Accession M, Elevator, Leema Antila 2Seco CD player, TDL studio 1.


Posted By: JonThurston
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2019 at 7:57am
Dear All

quick update re. my 1200G with the wobbly platter.

Technics continue to ignore the issue, by simply failing to honour the Warranty. Their last email on 30th May 2019 stated: "I am sorry to hear that the troubleshooting steps did not resolve the matter." When I request remedy under Warranty, they pretend my email does not mention that.

However, PayPal this week refunded me £2499 under my Section 75 claim!

So I'm now in the rather fortune reversed position of having all my money back, and a 1200G still on the rack!

I'd like to thank-you all for the tips and advice.

And to confirm that - in my experience - the Technics warranty ain't worth jack squat.

Jon.


-------------
Technics SL 1200G w/AT VM750SH - CuSat50 - Accession MM - Marantz PM6006 - ULDE - Sennheiser HD600 - ProAc DT8


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2019 at 10:05am
semi positive outcome john?  Go for another?  There was what appears a good value Origin live on eBay at the moment?

Since PP may seem to recover from technics wonder if you will get a call one day tomorrow return?

Would you like me to email technics back from my earlier email highlighting A Friends unresolved plight?



-------------
The Source turntable, Audiomods V micrometer, Dynavector XX2-2, Accession M, Elevator, Leema Antila 2Seco CD player, TDL studio 1.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2019 at 10:48am
A lot of these warranties depend on dealers to implement them. The dealer has call on the manufacturer for "free parts" and credits for labour against its product procurement debts. Thus, the manufacturer doesn't have any warranty workshop or staff of its own. In this case Eddies Superfi was closed for being insolvent and so the warranty could not be implemented (that's if they were set up for it). One would have thought Technics (Panasonic) could have redirected your issue to another dealer/agent, but as most are simply (online) supermarkets then they're stumped. Unfortunately discount hunting and discounting work hand in hand to bankrupt dealers/agencies who are/were established to provide customer care. Manufacturers enjoy the cash but fail their customers, but it won't be a case of all big manufacturers being the same (hopefully).


-------------
Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2019 at 8:59pm
I know it's academic but in defence of Superfi, I have a B&W PV1D which failed just outside of the warranty period, Superfi sent it back for repair & returned it to me with new warranty period. Then just inside the new warranty it failed again & Superfi once again organised repair with B&W. Courier costs were covered too. 6 years later it still works fine... fortunately.

Glad too that I got one of the earliest SL1200Gs & it remains near-perfect. In use the platter looks stationary apart from rotation of the smaller strobe dots (33rpm) so maybe mine was manufactured before the guys in Japan had pressure to meet demand? 


-------------
Older than I once was, younger than I'll be
.............................
Andrew


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2019 at 9:01am
Glad you got your money back Jon & hopefully you still have your 1200G.
Dreadful attitude from Technics - a big corporate bully by all accounts.
Compare such an attitude with that of many small UK hifi companies.




-------------
Elevator, Accession, Majestic, Reflex M, Solo ULDE, CuSat & Lautus.


Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2019 at 12:04pm
And I was so looking forward to buying a 1200G (at some point in the future when I have sold a kidney)

-------------
Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness??
I think so....


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2019 at 7:22pm
That's at least two potential 1200G sales they've lost from their drastically below par customer service.
Shouldn't think it'll keep them awake at night though..

-------------
Elevator, Accession, Majestic, Reflex M, Solo ULDE, CuSat & Lautus.



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net