ULDE?
Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Headphone Audio
Forum Name: Graham Slee Headphone Amps
Forum Description: Questions, answers and product information zone for Graham Slee Headphone Amplifiers
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4182
Printed Date: 27 Mar 2026 at 2:13am Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: ULDE?
Posted By: dogrelata
Subject: ULDE?
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2017 at 6:35pm
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This is my first post and I'm here looking for some advice
and guidance. So where to start?
I'm currently running a PC based digital system using Foobar
2000, mostly playing CD rips (to WAV), MP3 and AAC - no audiophile HD stuff
here, I'm afraid! To further emphasise
my philistine credentials, much of my listening is done whilst working at said
PC and not, therefore, giving the music my full attention. Mostly that music is rock, blues or
indie. The rest of the system is a
Chordette QuteHD DAC, GS Solo (circa 2005 or 2006) and a pair of unmodified Mr
Speakers Ethers.
Basically this combo makes a sound I enjoy...but I got caught
up in the whole hifi forum thing when researching the Ethers a couple of years
ago, which can be dangerous. For a
while I was quite taken with feedback regarding some of the Violectric
headphone amps, but I've been swithering and holding back because all my
purchases are made unheard and tend to rely on 'feel'. There's always been a nagging doubt
somewhere in the back of my mind that's held me back in this instance.
Then I came across a review of the ULDE and at first I
dismissed it. But something stuck with
me and further research has got me wondering about this amp. Recently I've been frequenting the GS site
and forum, coming across some interesting options.
Firstly, it looks like it might be possible to upgrade my
Solo to a ULDE for less than 50% of a new one, assuming the older chassis is
suitable for conversion. Is the
slightly different older casework able to take the new innards?
Secondly, and more contentiously, I've discovered GS
cables. At this point I should declare
my general scepticism in this area.
Having said that, it's not stopped me buying a few budget cables from
the likes of Wireworld and Ixos but I can't say they do much for the system,
other than make it look a bit more visually appealing. Maybe it's because £30/£40
cables/interconnects don't make much difference, I don't know. Would a sceptic like me hear a difference if
they placed a pair of Lautus interconnects in the signal path, do you think?
The thing is, a ULDE upgrade, Lautus interconnect and Lautus
USB could be had for less than the cost of a new ULDE and they could be phased
in progressively. So here's the
challenge, for those who've experienced the differences each of these three options
can make; are they able to quantify the relative differences delivered by each
option, in their estimation?
Any constructive thoughts would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
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Replies:
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2017 at 9:05pm
If you only listen to music from a computer and only need a USB input, the Bitzie DAC/amp and Lautus USB cable bundle is the way to go. The Bitzie sounds just as good as the Solo ULDE for digital audio, in my experience.
------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2017 at 8:11am
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Hi Andrew, The Solo ULDE will fit the older Solo case & is very easy to fit. My Solo case is the old type & has the latest ULDE board fitted. I owned Sennheiser HD650 at the time of the upgrade & I don't really think these 'phones have the resolution to show up the differences between Solo & ULDE. Other people like the '650s, so this is just my opinion.  Other headphones - such as HD540 ref & HD800 sound superb with the ULDE. The obvious advice is to borrow a ULDE through the loan scheme & this is encouraged.
The Lautus cables are as good as anything out there.
------------- Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.
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Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2017 at 2:19pm
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I am assuming that you already have the PSU1 power supply with your Solo, and your questions are: Will it be worth my while to upgrade my Solo ? and Will I find improvement by investing in GSP cabling to complement my other equipment? Since there should be no issue with upgrading your existing Solo (although I would enquire direct quoting the serial number before committing to that), the best course of action would seem to be availing yourself of the loan program to trial the ULDE and cables in your own system. Contact Jon (Fatmangolf) by PM to arrange that. Be warned, you may like what you hear and decide that you must have your own - that has happened to many of us over the years.
------------- Tony G
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Posted By: dogrelata
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2017 at 6:14pm
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Thanks all.
Ash,
An interesting suggestion. However the cost of Bitzie/USB cable combo is
more than the ULDE upgrade. Plus there's x, the unknown factor of how the Bitzie sounds in comparison to the Qute.
I'm happy with the Qute and have no thoughts of replacing it any time
soon.
Rick,
My Ethers are the spiritual successors to my
beloved, ailing 25 year old Stax Lambda Pros.
They're not quite as resolving or delicate as the Lambdas, but they come
quite close. If they didn't allow me to
hear a difference, I guess the ULDE wouldn't be for me.
Tony,
Yes, I have the PSU1.
The Solo serial number is 0205-70, which suggests it might date back to
February 2005, even longer ago than I remember!
I'll request a ULDE on loan and see how it sounds. I'm a little intrigued by what the "valvey"
sound is, especially as the 'Stax mafia' tend to describe the KGSSHV Carbon as
being the most valve-like sounding of all the Kevin Gilmore designed SS estat
amps. Anyway, I'll shut up about
estats, before I get thrown off this forum!
Cheers,
Andrew.
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2017 at 10:48pm
Thanks for your PM Andrew. Hear the Solo ULDE and let your ears decide.
[I renamed the topic 'UDLE' to 'ULDE']
------------- Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Posted By: dogrelata
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2017 at 6:49pm
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I'd like to start this post
by thanking Graham Slee and Jon Berg (Fatmangolf) for the opportunity to try a
ULDE via the loaner scheme.
I won't regurgitate my
recent audio history as that can be found in the OP, other than to say that
most of my listening for the last ten days has been Chordette QuteHD -> ULDE -> Mr Speakers Ethers, apart from a brief session with my HD650's taking
over from the Ethers.
My immediate reaction to
the ULDE was that it felt a bit forward, in my face and a bit congested. However that impression passed after a few
days. The next thing I felt was the
sound was a bit crisper and cleaner out of the ULDE than the Solo. There also seemed to be a bit more sparkle
and lustre. Initially I thought that
might be a problem in terms of brightness but, again, after a few days I rarely
felt it was 'too much'.
A couple of days ago, I thought
it was time to compare the ULDE to the Solo.
Trying to volume match as best I could by ear, the results were
interesting. First off, it doesn't seem
that there's that much of a difference between the respective sounds - there were no 'hearing things I'd never heard before' moments. To be honest, my experience with audio gear
is that I 'hear things presented in a way I've not heard before'
rather than the former. As I continued
to listen, though, the Solo started to sound a bit dull in comparison to the
ULDE and not as enjoyable to listen to.
Paradoxically, given that bit of sparkle, the ULDE is easier to listen
to at higher volumes and is less fatiguing to my ears. In conclusion, I have enjoyed the ULDE over the Solo but ultimately I don't think it's going to be for me.
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Posted By: dogrelata
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2020 at 2:53pm
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I can’t believe it’s more than two and a half years since I
trialled the ULDE through the loaner scheme.
At that time, I decided not to upgrade as I was attributing some of the ‘in
your face’ sound I was hearing to it.
With hindsight, I now know the main culprit was the Qute HD DAC I was
using at the time. The ULDE was simply highlighting
that DACs presentation, I guess, which I now think of as ‘trying too hard’ with all
elements of the sound clambering for my attention at the same time.
However, I still had the notion that I was looking for a new
amp so spent a few months looking for something a bit more restrained and respectful
of my personal space. Six months on, I
found an amp that seemed to fit the bill and it certainly made a positive
difference.
Then the first happenstance occurred. The new head amp was from the same
manufacturer of the Qute’s predecessor, which was a little USB DAC. A couple of weeks in I decided to try it with
the new amp. That’s when the penny
dropped and I realised the sound characteristics of the Qute were ‘too much’
for my tastes. At this point I also added
a Lautus USB cable to my set-up.
Twelve month’s later, I upgraded the little USB DAC with its
bigger brother. A few weeks later I also
added a pair of CuSat 50 interconnects.
By this time, I’d become a cable convert, previously having been a
member of the ‘a cable is just a cable’ community. I was also getting to the point where the
upgrade path that started back in 2017 was almost complete. Or so I thought…
Towards the end of last year, the plan was to get a Deze
headphone cable for my Mr Speakers Ethers.
I thought I remembered seeing a thread about getting that cable supplied
with non-Audeze terminations. It was
when visiting the Forum to find that thread that the second happenstance took place.
It occurred to me that I’d never once paired my old Solo
with the new DAC. When I did, it was a wow!
moment. So much so, that within a few
days, I’d contacted John Cadman with a view to upgrading it to an ULDE. A big thank you to John for all his help and
advice.
When the upgrade arrived, the first thing I noticed was what
I’d heard with both GSP cable upgrades – a delicacy and clarity in the treble
bands along with a sweetness of sound.
The next thing I started to notice was the sound had more depth and
textures, especially with acoustic instruments and voices. Finally, over the next few weeks, I started
to become aware of greater separation, and that’s what stands out for me most now
– separation, separation, separation!
There’s one further observation I’d like to make about the
sound I’m now hearing. It’s the “m” word
– mellowness. There’s just a hint of
mellowness with some material that I absolutely love.
Finally, in the spirit of second chances, as I type this
post I’m finally listening to the ULDE/new DAC combo through my old HD 650s for
the first time. Previously, when I’ve
compared them to the Ethers, I’ve felt they’re a bit dull with some muddiness,
maybe. Now all I hear is crispness and
clarity and don’t remember them sounding this ‘fast’ and light of touch.
Do they impart a bit more tension and drama to the
music? Not sure, but I think they’ve
earned the chance of a bit more ‘game time’.
They don’t ‘bring the thunder’ or the heft of the Ethers at high volumes
but conversely appear to be more involving at lower volumes, if a little unforgiving
at those higher volumes.
In conclusion, and with apology to Ash - perhaps if I’d
taken his advice regarding the DAC back in 2017, I may have got here sooner - I
can now say the ULDE is definitely for me!
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2020 at 7:41pm
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A DAC/amp like the Bitzie was a very valuable tool for me from 2013-2014 because of its superb sound and dual headphone output. I could directly compare headphones side-by-side. If I still had my Bitzie and various vintage 300 Ohm Sennheiser models like HD 250, 540, 560, 600 and the more recent HD800 and if you and I could sit down together, listen to some great music, listen carefully and draw some comparisons between them, it would be quite apparent that the HD650 isn't actually very good. So with the ULDE, you are in for further wow moments when you substitute the HD650 with something that has better resolution and an even frequency emphasis. Transducer is the most important part of your equipment. I have plugged headphones into decent computer headphone outputs and listened to youtube music for many years and used that to judge headphone performance as well. With the same handicap, you can still draw comparisons between devices with extended and careful listening.
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2020 at 7:49pm
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A wise investment and it shows how the whole system evolves. I agree with Ash about the benefits of extended listening and comaprisons of different amps and headphones. A few years ago I upgraded my Solo Ultralinear to the current ULDE spec and it works very well with all my headphones, which are just a fraction of the range Ash has tested.
------------- Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2020 at 7:58pm
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I am not particularly intelligent and I don't actually know that much however on the subject of headphones, I know enough to get the job done and obtain a pleasing result. Your expectations and outlook mature when you emotionally engage with music; when you just listen for the sheer love of it .Keep an open mind and question the validity of claims made by others.
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2020 at 8:01pm
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Agreed. Reading is fine but let always your ears decide what you like.
------------- Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2020 at 8:27pm
Ash wrote:
I am not particularly intelligent... |
Could have fooled me!
(stop being modest!)
------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Posted By: dogrelata
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2020 at 12:39pm
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Thanks Ash.
I have to confess a lot of my listening is whilst sitting at my computer doing other things with music playing at low volumes in the background. I must also confess that by the time another hour had passed from posting the above yesterday, I was starting to find the HD 650s a bit fatiguing. When we return to WFH next week, I may plug them in again to see how they fare at even lower volumes.
One of the things I meant to mention yesterday was how the numerous changes made to the set up over the last 30 months has affected one important aspect of my digital listening experience, in particular the GSP components.
Since going fully digital a few years ago, I've found the digital equivalent of some LPs I used to own a bit dull and lifeless compared to the analogue versions. That has slowly been changing during that time and the last holdouts are finally starting to sound like I remember them on LP, thanks to the ULDE.
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2020 at 1:56pm
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Digital vs vinyl isn't a one-sided victory. Some music is mastered better on vinyl and some is mastered better in digital. In an ideal world with no budget or space limits, you would use both and enjoy the better sounding rendition after comparing both. This isn't a viable option for most though. Same with headphones. Most people don't have the money/time/space to buy all the headphone models that have ever been produced and compare them all to find one that actually is high fidelity and ergonomically works for their style of listening. A few years back, I was actively trying to help others to take the guesswork out of headphone selection by picking what I liked and presenting it to others who shared the same listening objective. But there is so much choice, high expense, a minefield of false information and discontinued parts/models basically unobtainable. Nowadays, it is probably less hassle to go to speakers for high fidelity. Graham Slee takes half the guesswork out of it with his fantastic Proprius monoblocks, which are a big but solid investment. After that, excellent speaker drivers are better value for money than top headphones thanks to affordable Mark Audio drivers and nearfield cardboard boxes. Probably the most sensible route for testing and learning. Digital EQ or DSP like the miniDSP 2x4HD would allow on-the-fly alteration of the frequency levels to optimise their sound in the listening room. Nearfield listening means the direct sound is dominant so reduced room signature imparted on the reproduction.
Much less cost than the $4000 MySphere 3.1 headphone, which is the only mega-buck headphone product that I trust to do the job it is marketed for and still requires good driving electronics.
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