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cd transport or pc for SQ????

Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: And the rest
Forum Name: Audio System Set-Up
Forum Description: Discussions about getting the best from your system (Digital section now moved)
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=331
Printed Date: 27 Mar 2026 at 2:11am
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Topic: cd transport or pc for SQ????
Posted By: oldson
Subject: cd transport or pc for SQ????
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2008 at 4:11pm
basic question.
a high end system consists of :-
cd transport> dac> amp> speakers/cans (ignore cabling)

how much difference does the transport make?

my source is my pc. all music loaded using cheap pc cd transport.
does this mean SQ will always be less standard than above??
thanks



Replies:
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2008 at 1:06pm

Not necessarily.

Too many variables, including where you set the bar for "high end", if you are thinking of something like the Reimyo CDP @ around $27K then almost certainly, but back in the real world where most of us live, many (particularly headphone users) rely almost entirely on PC sources and some very competent computer based sources have been purpose built.

Once your CD is ripped accurately using readily available software and stored on your HDD the quality of the playback from your CD-Rom drive is inconsequential.

There are a number of issues to consider, but the greatest factor in SQ obtained will come from the quality of DAC and your ability to feed it the cleanest signal possible.

The electrically noisy interior of a PC can be a source of signal contamination and jitter, approaches such as using external soundcards connected by USB or Firewire is one solution, as also are DACs having USB input.  If the DAC reclocks the incoming signal then jitter will be reduced.

When you say PC I am not sure if you are talking of a desktop machine or a laptop, the options may vary a little depending on which you use.

A number of people of my acquaintance who use desktop machines are quite satisfied with the analogue output from a good quality soundcard fed to a Solo or other quality headphone amp and I have owned standalone CD players that did a worse job than a couple of the soundcards that I have here.

So, not by any means are you condemned to second-rate by using a PC source.

How much difference does the transport make ? - that is a question that has sparked many a lively debate.

As an indicator, early this year I attended a gathering of audio tragics for a "source shootout", there were around 20 in attendance and sources varied from an old cheap CDP through several $1K - $3K models and up to an $8K Wadia and also included a laptop fed into a USB DAC that can be purchased online for around $700 (pricing in $AU).

Levels were matched and all sources fed through a switch box to the same amp and speakers - which player was connected to each number on the switch was known only to the setup man.  There was no discussion during comparisons but free switching at request was the order of the day.  Attendees took notes and selected numbers according to their rankings eg player no 1 worst, player no 2 third, player no 3 first etc. notes re various aspects of SQ were also made.  Afterwards the setup man collated all the result sheets, unsurprisingly the Wadia ranked first, surprisingly the USB DAC ranked second, the others more or less in order of price, ascending.

The differences were not as obvious as might be expected and my feeling was that a longer period of evaluation with a wider range of music might be necessary to fully appreciate the superiority of the most expensive machine, its strengths were definite but subtle and it was probably more evenhanded on a wider range of material.

In other words its strength was its lack of weaknesses rather than an "in your face, blow everything else away" presentation.

Do note the second preference, a laptop with a USB fed DAC, this from a group of around 20 fairly experienced listeners choosing on SQ.

 



Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2008 at 2:30pm
Some believe that using an optical cable to connect the PC to your external DAC helps in reducing the PC noise.

-------------
Miguel


Posted By: oldson
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2009 at 10:04pm
ok
i will re-word my question.
if there were 2 cd players, with identical (built in) dacs, but different quality transports.
would they sound different?
how much influence does the laser pick up (or whatever) have on sound quality?


Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2009 at 3:40pm

Repeat

Quote How much difference does the transport make ? - that is a question that has sparked many a lively debate.



Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2009 at 3:08pm
Depending on who you ask you will get all kinds of answers. This is no diferent than comparing two turntables w/ the same cartridge, phone stage, amp, cables, and speakers. Some will hear a huge difference and others none.
 
So the answer is: Huge, A Little, and None. Hope that clears the issue. ;)


-------------
Miguel


Posted By: oldson
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2009 at 7:50pm
i was lead to believe by one poster on head-fi that:-
 
the pick-up of a hard drive is much more accurate than that of a cdp!
therefore, if you use "error correction" when ripping to hd and playback using something like winamp, with aiso4all, thats as good as it gets!?!?!?
obviously this does not account for any (pc) interference.
 
i get no detectable interference from my pc, induced into the music i listen to. the only problem i have is having changed from closed to open cans, i can now hear the fans during guiet moments.
 
i am thinking of buying a high-end cdp, to use when my pc has problems ( something like the cyrus cd6 or cd6se). but the thought of it sounding no better than my pc is holding me back.
trouble is it is a nagging itch that is crying out to be scratchedWink


Posted By: Cyreg
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2009 at 10:55pm
I'm a total nono on digital, streaming, music from PC's etc and not interested in it too. Embarrassed
 
But I can not and will not believe (no need to be proven by technical explanations; I don't care), that listening to the sound of a well recorded CD on a known good sounding CDP will be equalled by any other digital format on a good audio setup with loudspeakers. Wink
 
But..................I have no experience whatsoever. Embarrassed
 
Is there somebody here who can, from first hand LISTENING-EXPERIENCE in the same situation comparing side by side, contradict this presumption. Question
Have fun Han


-------------
TecnoDec/RB250/MP110>GramAmp2C/PSU1; Cyrus CD8SE; > Exposure 3010S2D INT > Harbeth C7ES-3 '35th Anniversary'
cabling: IC 2x DNM V3; LScable Exposure DMF-two; Furu TP60 + MWaY and BlackCable pc's


Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2009 at 7:31am

Doesn't answer either of you directly, but yesterday I had the opportunity of hearing a comparison of 2 CD players that would fit Grahams idea of "high end", in that the retail price of both probably has as much to do with what the vendors believe someone will pay, as with the cost of components and R & D and production generally.

These were heard in company with several others at the home of an acquaintance who owns a pair of rather exquisitely made and finished (and very good sounding) Duntech DSM-15 speakers and some rather serious amplification - more than capable of allowing the players to strut their stuff.

The contenders were the owners Simaudio Moon (something or other model) CDP and a 47 labs Shigaraki transport and DAC.

The 47 labs is around half the price of the Moon (still very X even if their cheapest model) and in the opinion of all present, including the somewhat bemused Moon owner, it rather upstaged the Moon in most areas on the system as configured.  Particularly notable was its better portrayal of piano, especially in the definition of the lower registers and overall, on a variety of musical genres, it was the preferred choice of all present.

So there is one out of left field for you, if you simply must have a "high-end" player, make sure you audition the 47 labs before you drop your cash.

Otherwise, most of what I can tell you is already in my previous post.

Han, if/when I find time, I may try the comparison for you, although to be fair, I may need to borrow your Cyrus for a few weeks Wink

ciao and enjoy the music.



Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2009 at 1:36am

Came across this review http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1919 - has a deal of discussion and comparison of various upmarket CD players and DAC/transport combinations with a final view of a quite cheap DAC in comparison.

This might address some of your questions in a little more depth than one usually finds on hf.



Posted By: Cyreg
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2009 at 1:22pm
Hi TG, thanks.
I''ll read it again somewhat preciezer, but it's an interesting read.
 
It's indeed about CDP's through the years, CDP's used as a transport, one dedicated transport and different(also cheap) DAC's and cabling listened to, on a high class speakersystem.
The constant here is that redbook CD's are being played all of the time.
 
Maybe I'll use your link on some other forums too, where discussions on transports offer great debates.
 
So, I'm still very curious about the difference in sound of a good stereoCD on a known-good-sounding CDP compared to other high quality digital formats, on a good speakersystem.
I still cannot believe those other digital formats will equal the stereo CD soundquality.
Have fun Han
 
EDIT: OK TG, your last reply is offcourse meant for the OP Embarrassed
          But..................
 
 
 


-------------
TecnoDec/RB250/MP110>GramAmp2C/PSU1; Cyrus CD8SE; > Exposure 3010S2D INT > Harbeth C7ES-3 '35th Anniversary'
cabling: IC 2x DNM V3; LScable Exposure DMF-two; Furu TP60 + MWaY and BlackCable pc's


Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2009 at 3:28pm

Han,

fine if you got something from it, the language is fairly intense and the information contained in it quite condensed.  He actually used two dedicated transports in addition to the 3 CDPs although it is necessary to read fairly carefully to note that.

Worth noting also his observation that transports do indeed make a difference and also his observations on the amount of power on time before full performance is obtained - he in fact expands on this aspect somewhat in another review on the same site.

He has a couple of other reviews on that site that I have read recently with interest, one on a tube buffer and a tube booster stage and another on a peculiar product or two from the Ringmat folk.

Yes, I did originally think of Simons questions when I posted the link, particularly since to me, the observations and attendant equipment, were somewhat more considered and informed than the usual fluff on head-fi.

But what the hey, whoever enjoys it Wink

For a thought provoker and not directly addressing your digital scepticism WRT Redbook CD.  I would generally consider my vinyl frontend to be superior to my digital (CDP) frontend,  but have recently (OK a couple of months ago Ermm ) recorded a couple of LPs to digital files @ 24/96 sampling rate and without any post processing replaying via the same semi-pro external soundcard/interface from the computer and direct into my amp the SQ seemed fairly similar.  I have not taken time to listen critically to the results as I have yet to find time to record another LP to make sufficient to fill an audio DVD for peer review.

The initial impression however was quite favourable.



Posted By: Cyreg
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2009 at 6:26pm
Yeah, for a moment there I forgot all about that vinyl Wink (I'm upgrading, but other subject)
Love my vinyl playback, I like my 8SE; though that feeling will also be strengthened by the different music I have on both softwaretypes.
I'll take another look on that forum too, sounds good to me.
Well I'm also curious about your "needledrops", never did that, but, hey, I'm diginono.
Hf Han


-------------
TecnoDec/RB250/MP110>GramAmp2C/PSU1; Cyrus CD8SE; > Exposure 3010S2D INT > Harbeth C7ES-3 '35th Anniversary'
cabling: IC 2x DNM V3; LScable Exposure DMF-two; Furu TP60 + MWaY and BlackCable pc's



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